Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 17:42:08 +0900
From: Hironori KIKUCHI <kikuchan98@...il.com>
To: Andre Przywara <andre.przywara@....com>
Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@...nel.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, 
	Uwe Kleine-König <ukleinek@...nel.org>, 
	Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>, Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk+dt@...nel.org>, Conor Dooley <conor+dt@...nel.org>, 
	Chen-Yu Tsai <wens@...e.org>, Jernej Skrabec <jernej.skrabec@...il.com>, 
	Samuel Holland <samuel@...lland.org>, Aleksandr Shubin <privatesub2@...il.com>, 
	Cheo Fusi <fusibrandon13@...il.com>, linux-pwm@...r.kernel.org, 
	devicetree@...r.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, 
	linux-sunxi@...ts.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [PATCH 5/5] dt-bindings: pwm: sun20i: Add options to select a
 clock source and DIV_M

Hi Andre,

Thank you for your reply.

2024年6月3日(月) 9:10 Andre Przywara <andre.przywara@....com>:
>
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 15:15:13 +0900
> Hironori KIKUCHI <kikuchan98@...il.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Kikuchan,
>
> > Hi Krzysztof,
> >
> > > On 31/05/2024 19:57, Hironori KIKUCHI wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > >>> This patch adds new options to select a clock source and DIV_M register
> > > >>> value for each coupled PWM channels.
> > > >>
> > > >> Please do not use "This commit/patch/change", but imperative mood. See
> > > >> longer explanation here:
> > > >> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.17.1/source/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst#L95
> > > >>
> > > >> Bindings are before their users. This should not be last patch, because
> > > >> this implies there is no user.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry, I'll fix them.
> > > >
> > > >> This applies to all variants? Or the one you add? Confused...
> > > >
> > > > Apologies for confusing you. This applies to all variants.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Signed-off-by: Hironori KIKUCHI <kikuchan98@...il.com>
> > > >>> ---
> > > >>>  .../bindings/pwm/allwinner,sun20i-pwm.yaml    | 19 +++++++++++++++++++
> > > >>>  1 file changed, 19 insertions(+)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/pwm/allwinner,sun20i-pwm.yaml b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/pwm/allwinner,sun20i-pwm.yaml
> > > >>> index b9b6d7e7c87..436a1d344ab 100644
> > > >>> --- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/pwm/allwinner,sun20i-pwm.yaml
> > > >>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/pwm/allwinner,sun20i-pwm.yaml
> > > >>> @@ -45,6 +45,25 @@ properties:
> > > >>>      description: The number of PWM channels configured for this instance
> > > >>>      enum: [6, 9]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> +  allwinner,pwm-pair-clock-sources:
> > > >>> +    description: The clock source names for each PWM pair
> > > >>> +    items:
> > > >>> +      enum: [hosc, apb]
> > > >>> +    minItems: 1
> > > >>> +    maxItems: 8
> > > >>
> > > >> Missing type... and add 8 of such items to your example to make it complete.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you. I'll fix it.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>> +
> > > >>> +  allwinner,pwm-pair-clock-prescales:
> > > >>> +    description: The prescale (DIV_M register) values for each PWM pair
> > > >>> +    $ref: /schemas/types.yaml#/definitions/uint32-matrix
> > > >>> +    items:
> > > >>> +      items:
> > > >>> +        minimum: 0
> > > >>> +        maximum: 8
> > > >>> +      minItems: 1
> > > >>> +      maxItems: 1
> > > >>> +    minItems: 1
> > > >>> +    maxItems: 8
> > > >>
> > > >> This does not look like matrix but array.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to specify values like this:
> > > >
> > > >     allwinner,pwm-pair-clock-prescales = <0>, <1>, <3>;
> > > >     allwinner,pwm-pair-clock-sources = "hosc", "apb", "hosc":
> > > >
> > > > These should correspond to each PWM pair.
> > > > This way, I thought we might be able to visually understand the relationship
> > > > between prescalers and sources, like clock-names and clocks.
> > > >
> > > > Is this notation uncommon, perhaps?
> > >
> > > It's still an array.
> >
> > Oh I understood and clear. Thank you.
> >
> > > >> Why clock DIV cannot be deduced from typical PWM attributes + clock
> > > >> frequency?
> > > >
> > > > This SoC's PWM system has one shared prescaler and clock source for each pair
> > > > of PWM channels. I should have noted this earlier, sorry.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, the original v9 patch automatically deduced the DIV value
> > > > from the frequency.
> > > > However, because the two channels share a single prescaler, once one channel is
> > > > enabled, it affects and restricts the DIV value for the other channel
> > > > in the pair.
> > > > This introduces a problem of determining which channel should set the shared DIV
> > > > value. The original behavior was that the first channel enabled would win.
> > >
> > > There's nothing bad in this.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Instead, this patch try to resolve the issue by specifying these
> > > > values for each PWM
> > > > pairs deterministically.
> > > > That's why it requires the new options.
> > >
> > > This does not solve that wrong divider can be programmed for second
> > > channel in each pair.
> > >
> >
> > Let me illustrate the connection of a paired PWM channels to be sure.
> >
> > .    +------+                   +--------------+  +------+
> > .    + HOSC +--+             +--+ prescale_k 0 +--+ PWM0 |
> > .    +------+  |  +-------+  |  +--------------+  +------+
> > .              +--+ DIV_M +--+
> > .    +------+  |  +-------+  |  +--------------+  +------+
> > .    + APBx +--+             +--+ prescale_k 1 +--+ PWM1 |
> > .    +------+                   +--------------+  +------+
> > .          CLK_SRC
> >
> > The PWM0 and PWM1 share DIV_M and CLK_SRC for them, and (not
> > illustrated) PWM2 and PWM3 share another DIV_M and another CLK_SRC for
> > them, and so on.
> > The DIV_M ranges from 0 to 8 and is used as a 1 / 2^DIV_M prescaler,
> > prescale_k ranges from 0 to 255 and is used as a 1 / (prescale_k + 1)
> > prescaler.
> >
> > In the original v9 patch, enabling PWM0 determines CLK_SRC and
> > calculates DIV_M from the period that is going to be set.
> > Once the CLK_SRC and DIV_M are fixed, they cannot be changed until
> > both channels are disabled, unless PWM0 is the only enabled channel.
> >
> > Looks good so far, but there is a pitfall.
> >
> > Selecting CLK_SRC and DIV_M means it defines the PWM resolution of the
> > period and duty cycle for the pair of the PWM channels.
> > In other words, the resolution is determined by the (most likely the
> > very first) period, which can be arbitrary.
>
> So I understand the problem, but I don't think expressing this in the
> devicetree is the right solution. It seems like a tempting pragmatical
> approach, but it sounds like the wrong way: this is not a hardware
> *description* of any kind, but rather a way to describe a certain user
> intention or a configuration. So this looks like a rather embedded
> approach to me, where you have a certain fixed register setup in mind,
> and want to somehow force this to the hardware.
> Another problem with this approach is that it doesn't really cover the
> sysfs interface, which is very dynamic by nature.

... Indeed. You're right.
Now I've realized it was a bad idea.
It should be done in sysfs or sysctl perhaps.

>
> I have some questions / ideas, and would love to hear some feedback on
> them:
> - If some PWM channels are "linked", I don't think there is much we can
>   do about it: it's a hardware limitation. The details of that is
>   already "encoded" in the compatible string, I'd say, so there is no
>   need for further description in the devicetree. Any PWM user on those
>   boards would probably need to know about the shortcomings, and either
>   use different channels for wildly different PWM setups, or accept
>   that there are actually only three freely programmable PWM channels.
> - Does the PWM subsystem already have a way to model linked channels?
>   Maybe that problem is solved already elsewhere?
> - Previous Allwinner PWM IP was restricted to use the 24 MHz
>   oscillator only, and people seem to have survived with that. Can we
>   not just restrict ourselves to one clock source for those linked
>   channels? I would assume that the PWM frequency is less important
>   than the duty cycle?
> - Can't we just return an error if some conflicting setup requests are
>   made? At the expense of this seeming somewhat random to the user,
>   because it depends on the order of requests? But people could then
>   react on the returned error value?
>
> In general, I wonder what the real use cases are, maybe it's not a
> problem in real life? Do you have a concrete issue at hand, or is this
> just thinking about all potential use cases - which is honourable, but
> maybe a bit over the top here?

IMHO, it is sufficient to use fixed CLK_SRC and DIV_M values for this
driver, since the default values (CLK_SRC == hosc and DIV_M == 0)
already provide enough range in real life.

What I really care about is minimizing complexity and avoiding surprises.
Although the original method enables an incredibly wide range of the
period, it introduces unpredictability in resolution and inequity in a
pair due to a race in the order of enabling, as a drawback.

If the primary concern is achieving such a wide range, then I think
the original method is the most suitable option.

>
> Cheers,
> Andre
>

Best regards,
kikuchan.

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