linux-kernel - Re: deconflicting new syscall numbers for 6.11

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Message-ID: <CAHk-=whTjdO6szgRKp51ZeDLDmA1+YYSbg+vEUt9OsxTMDUtjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 11:18:36 -0700
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>
Cc: jolsa@...nel.org, mhiramat@...nel.org, cgzones@...glemail.com, 
	brauner@...nel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, arnd@...db.de
Subject: Re: deconflicting new syscall numbers for 6.11

On Thu, 4 Jul 2024 at 11:04, Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@...c4.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I want to hear *from* those users. Because I would have expected all
> > those users to already have perfectly working setups in place already.
>
> What do you want me to do here?

You literally said "those users exist".

Make them pipe up.

Make them explain why what they don't have now doesn't work. What this
solves. In real terms.

Make them explain why that random "we duplicated the VM, and now we
worry that mixing in TSC doesn't help" is an actual real-world
concern, rather than something COMPLETELY MADE UP BY RANDOM NUMBER
PEOPLE.

See what my argument is? My argument is literally that theoretical
random number people will make up arguments that aren't actually
relevant in real life.

Do real people migrate VMs? Hell yes they do. Do they care about the
numbers being magically "stale" after said migration? I seriously
doubt that.

Do real people start multiple VMs from one single starting image?
Again, hell yes they do.

But do they start those multiple VMs from some random slapdash
snapshot that they just picked without any concern and cannot just
reseed in user space? And if they do, why should *WE* clean up after
their mindbogglingly stupid setup?

See what my argument is? I suspect _strongly_ that this is all
completely over-engineered based on theoretical grounds that aren't
actually practical grounds.

And dammit, I'm asking for the practical grounds. For the actual users.

And if you have trouble finding those, you just proved my point.

           Linus