Message-ID: <CADrL8HW4PLTeC9Gq3Fd43-idjzOw8mXOzzG_RP1TYVoGp1_g+g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 16:10:29 -0700
From: James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com>
To: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com>
Cc: Yu Zhao <yuzhao@...gle.com>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, 
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>, Ankit Agrawal <ankita@...dia.com>, 
	Axel Rasmussen <axelrasmussen@...gle.com>, Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, 
	David Matlack <dmatlack@...gle.com>, David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>, 
	James Morse <james.morse@....com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>, Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>, 
	Oliver Upton <oliver.upton@...ux.dev>, Raghavendra Rao Ananta <rananta@...gle.com>, 
	Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@....com>, Shaoqin Huang <shahuang@...hat.com>, 
	Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>, Wei Xu <weixugc@...gle.com>, 
	Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, Zenghui Yu <yuzenghui@...wei.com>, kvmarm@...ts.linux.dev, 
	kvm@...r.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, 
	linux-doc@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 4/9] mm: Add test_clear_young_fast_only MMU notifier

On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 10:49 AM Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 08, 2024, James Houghton wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 7:38 PM James Houghton <jthoughton@...gle.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 11:37 AM Sean Christopherson <seanjc@...gle.com> wrote:
> > I still don't think we should get rid of the WAS_FAST stuff.
>
> I do :-)
>
> > The assumption that the L1 VM will almost never share pages between L2
> > VMs is questionable. The real question becomes: do we care to have
> > accurate age information for this case? I think so.
>
> I think you're conflating two different things.  WAS_FAST isn't about accuracy,
> it's about supporting lookaround in conditionally fast secondary MMUs.
>
> Accuracy only comes into play when we're talking about the last-minute check,
> which, IIUC, has nothing to do with WAS_FAST because any potential lookaround has
> already been performed.

Sorry, I thought you meant: have the MMU notifier only ever be
lockless (when tdp_mmu_enabled), and just return a potentially wrong
result in the unlikely case that L1 is sharing pages between L2s.

I think it's totally fine to just drop WAS_FAST. So then we can either
do look-around (1) always, or (2) only when there is a secondary MMU
with has_fast_aging. (2) is pretty simple, I'll just do that.

We can add some shadow MMU lockless support later to make the
look-around not as useless for the nested TDP case.

> > It's not completely trivial to get the lockless walking of the shadow
> > MMU rmaps correct either (please see the patch I attached here[1]).
>
> Heh, it's not correct.  Invoking synchronize_rcu() in kvm_mmu_commit_zap_page()
> is illegal, as mmu_lock (rwlock) is held and synchronize_rcu() might_sleep().
>
> For kvm_test_age_rmap_fast(), KVM can blindly read READ_ONCE(*sptep).  KVM might
> read garbage, but that would be an _extremely_ rare scenario, and reporting a
> zapped page as being young is acceptable in that 1 in a billion situation.
>
> For kvm_age_rmap_fast(), i.e. where KVM needs to write, I'm pretty sure KVM can
> handle that by rechecking the rmap and using CMPXCHG to write the SPTE.  If the
> rmap is unchanged, then the old SPTE value is guaranteed to be valid, in the sense
> that its value most definitely came from a KVM shadow page table.  Ah, drat, that
> won't work, because very theoretically, the page table could be freed, reallocated,
> and rewritten with the exact same value by something other than KVM.  Hrm.
>
> Looking more closely, I think we can go straight to supporting rmap walks outside
> of mmu_lock.  There will still be a "lock", but it will be a *very* rudimentary
> lock, akin to the TDP MMU's REMOVED_SPTE approach.  Bit 0 of rmap_head->val is
> used to indicate "many", while bits 63:3/31:2 on 64-bit/32-bit KVM hold the
> pointer (to a SPTE or a list).  That means bit 1 is available for shenanigans.
>
> If we use bit 1 to lock the rmap, then the fast mmu_notifier can safely walk the
> entire rmap chain.  And with a reader/write scheme, the rmap walks that are
> performed under mmu_lock don't need to lock the rmap, which means flows like
> kvm_mmu_zap_collapsible_spte() don't need to be modified to avoid recursive
> self-deadlock.  Lastly, the locking can be conditioned on the rmap being valid,
> i.e. having at least one SPTE.  That way the common case of a gfn not having any
> rmaps is a glorified nop.
>
> Adding the locking isn't actually all that difficult, with the *huge* caveat that
> the below patch is compile-tested only.  The vast majority of the churn is to make
> it so existing code ignores the new KVM_RMAP_LOCKED bit.

This is very interesting, thanks for laying out how this could be
done. I don't want to hold this series up on getting the details of
the shadow MMU lockless walk exactly right. :)

> I don't know that we should pursue such an approach in this series unless we have
> to.  E.g. if we can avoid WAS_FAST or don't have to carry too much intermediate
> complexity, then it'd probably be better to land the TDP MMU support first and
> then add nested TDP support later.

Agreed!

> At the very least, it does make me more confident that a fast walk of the rmaps
> is very doable (at least for nested TDP), i.e. makes me even more steadfast
> against adding WAS_FAST.
>
> > And the WAS_FAST functionality isn't even that complex to begin with.
>
> I agree the raw code isn't terribly complex, but it's not trivial either.  And the
> concept and *behavior* is complex, which is just as much of a maintenance burden
> as the code itself.  E.g. it requires knowing that KVM has multiple MMUs buried
> behind a single mmu_notifier, and that a "hit" on the fast MMU will trigger
> lookaround on the fast MMU, but not the slow MMU.  Understanding and describing
> the implications of that behavior isn't easy.  E.g. if GFN=X is young in the TDP
> MMU, but X+1..X+N are young only in the shadow MMU, is doing lookaround and making
> decisions based purely on the TDP MMU state the "right" behavior?
>
> I also really don't like bleeding KVM details into the mmu_nofitier APIs.  The
> need for WAS_FAST is 100% a KVM limitation.  AFAIK, no other secondary MMU has
> multiple MMU implementations active behind a single notifier, and other than lack
> of support, nothing fundamentally prevents a fast query in the shadow MMU.

Makes sense.

So in v6, I will make the following changes:

1. Drop the WAS_FAST complexity.
2. Add a function like mm_has_fast_aging_notifiers(), use that to
determine if we should be doing look-around.
3. Maybe change the notifier calls slightly[1], still need to check performance.

Does that sound good to you?

Thanks!

[1]: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/CAOUHufb2f_EwHY5LQ59k7Nh7aS1-ZbOKtkoysb8BtxRNRFMypQ@mail.gmail.com/

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