Message-ID: <Zpff-8LmqK5AD-a8@phenom.ffwll.local>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:15:07 +0200
From: Daniel Vetter <daniel.vetter@...ll.ch>
To: Huan Yang <link@...o.com>
Cc: Christian König <christian.koenig@....com>,
	Sumit Semwal <sumit.semwal@...aro.org>,
	Benjamin Gaignard <benjamin.gaignard@...labora.com>,
	Brian Starkey <Brian.Starkey@....com>,
	John Stultz <jstultz@...gle.com>,
	"T.J. Mercier" <tjmercier@...gle.com>, linux-media@...r.kernel.org,
	dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org, linaro-mm-sig@...ts.linaro.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, opensource.kernel@...o.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] dma-buf: heaps: DMA_HEAP_IOCTL_ALLOC_READ_FILE
 framework

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 06:14:48PM +0800, Huan Yang wrote:
> 
> 在 2024/7/16 17:31, Daniel Vetter 写道:
> > [你通常不会收到来自 daniel.vetter@...ll.ch 的电子邮件。请访问 https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification，以了解这一点为什么很重要]
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 10:48:40AM +0800, Huan Yang wrote:
> > > I just research the udmabuf, Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > > 
> > > 在 2024/7/15 20:32, Christian König 写道:
> > > > Am 15.07.24 um 11:11 schrieb Daniel Vetter:
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 11:00:02AM +0200, Christian König wrote:
> > > > > > Am 11.07.24 um 09:42 schrieb Huan Yang:
> > > > > > > Some user may need load file into dma-buf, current
> > > > > > > way is:
> > > > > > >      1. allocate a dma-buf, get dma-buf fd
> > > > > > >      2. mmap dma-buf fd into vaddr
> > > > > > >      3. read(file_fd, vaddr, fsz)
> > > > > > > This is too heavy if fsz reached to GB.
> > > > > > You need to describe a bit more why that is to heavy. I can only
> > > > > > assume you
> > > > > > need to save memory bandwidth and avoid the extra copy with the CPU.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > This patch implement a feature called DMA_HEAP_IOCTL_ALLOC_READ_FILE.
> > > > > > > User need to offer a file_fd which you want to load into
> > > > > > > dma-buf, then,
> > > > > > > it promise if you got a dma-buf fd, it will contains the file content.
> > > > > > Interesting idea, that has at least more potential than trying
> > > > > > to enable
> > > > > > direct I/O on mmap()ed DMA-bufs.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The approach with the new IOCTL might not work because it is a very
> > > > > > specialized use case.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > But IIRC there was a copy_file_range callback in the file_operations
> > > > > > structure you could use for that. I'm just not sure when and how
> > > > > > that's used
> > > > > > with the copy_file_range() system call.
> > > > > I'm not sure any of those help, because internally they're all still
> > > > > based
> > > > > on struct page (or maybe in the future on folios). And that's the thing
> > > > > dma-buf can't give you, at least without peaking behind the curtain.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think an entirely different option would be malloc+udmabuf. That
> > > > > essentially handles the impendence-mismatch between direct I/O and
> > > > > dma-buf
> > > > > on the dma-buf side. The downside is that it'll make the permanently
> > > > > pinned memory accounting and tracking issues even more apparent, but I
> > > > > guess eventually we do need to sort that one out.
> > > > Oh, very good idea!
> > > > Just one minor correction: it's not malloc+udmabuf, but rather
> > > > create_memfd()+udmabuf.
> > Hm right, it's create_memfd() + mmap(memfd) + udmabuf
> > 
> > > > And you need to complete your direct I/O before creating the udmabuf
> > > > since that reference will prevent direct I/O from working.
> > > udmabuf will pin all pages, so, if returned fd, can't trigger direct I/O
> > > (same as dmabuf). So, must complete read before pin it.
> > Why does pinning prevent direct I/O? I haven't tested, but I'd expect the
> > rdma folks would be really annoyed if that's the case ...
> > 
> > > But current way is use `memfd_pin_folios` to boost alloc and pin, so maybe
> > > need suit it.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I currently doubt that the udmabuf solution is suitable for our
> > > gigabyte-level read operations.
> > > 
> > > 1. The current mmap operation uses faulting, so frequent page faults will be
> > > triggered during reads, resulting in a lot of context switching overhead.
> > > 
> > > 2. current udmabuf size limit is 64MB, even can change, maybe not good to
> > > use in large size?
> > Yeah that's just a figleaf so we don't have to bother about the accounting
> > issue.
> > 
> > > 3. The migration and adaptation of the driver is also a challenge, and
> > > currently, we are unable to control it.
> > Why does a udmabuf fd not work instead of any other dmabuf fd? That
> > shouldn't matter for the consuming driver ...
> 
> Hmm, our production's driver provider by other oem. I see many of they
> implement
> 
> their own dma_buf_ops.  These may not be generic and may require them to
> reimplement.

Yeah, for exporting a buffer object allocated by that driver. But any
competent gles/vk stack also supports importing dma-buf, and that should
work with udmabuf exactly the same way as with a dma-buf allocated from
the system heap.

> > > Perhaps implementing `copy_file_range` would be more suitable for us.
> > See my other mail, fundamentally these all rely on struct page being
> > present, and dma-buf doesn't give you that. Which means you need to go
> > below the dma-buf abstraction. And udmabuf is pretty much the thing for
> > that, because it wraps normal struct page memory into a dmabuf.
> Yes, udmabuf give this, I am very interested in whether the page provided by
> udmabuf can trigger direct I/O.
> 
> So, I'll give a test and report soon.
> > 
> > And copy_file_range on the underlying memfd might already work, I haven't
> > checked though.
> 
> I have doubts.
> 
> I recently tested and found that I need to modify many places in
> vfs_copy_file_range in order to run the copy file range with DMA_BUF fd.(I
> have managed to get it working,

I'm talking about memfd, not dma-buf here. I think copy_file_range to
dma-buf is as architecturally unsound as allowing O_DIRECT on the dma-buf
mmap.

Cheers, Sima

> but I don't think the implementation is good enough, so I can't provide the
> source code.)
> 
> Maybe memfd can work or not, let's give it a test.:)
> 
> Anyway, it's a good idea too. I currently need to focus on whether it can be
> achieved, as well as the performance comparison.
> 
> > 
> > Cheers, Sima
> > --
> > Daniel Vetter
> > Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
> > http://blog.ffwll.ch/

-- 
Daniel Vetter
Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
http://blog.ffwll.ch

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