Message-ID: <cf031c05-4082-4cfe-9a4a-0c855764ee04@kernel.org>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 07:29:36 +0200
From: Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@...nel.org>
To: Arınç ÜNAL <arinc.unal@...nc9.com>,
 AngeloGioacchino Del Regno <angelogioacchino.delregno@...labora.com>
Cc: Linux regressions mailing list <regressions@...ts.linux.dev>,
 Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>, "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
 Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, devicetree@...r.kernel.org,
 linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
 linux-mediatek@...ts.infradead.org, Daniel Golle <daniel@...rotopia.org>,
 frank-w@...lic-files.de, Frank Wunderlich <linux@...web.de>,
 Rob Herring <robh@...nel.org>, Conor Dooley <conor+dt@...nel.org>,
 Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk+dt@...nel.org>,
 Matthias Brugger <matthias.bgg@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] arm64: dts: mt7622: fix switch probe on bananapi-r64

On 30/07/2024 18:38, Arınç ÜNAL wrote:
> On 30/07/2024 19:04, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote:
>> On 30/07/2024 13:22, arinc.unal@...nc9.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reminder: try to not see a revert as a bad thing. It's just means
>>>>>> "not
>>>>>> ready yet, revert and we'll try again later" -- that's actually
>>>>>> something Linus wrote just a few hours ago:
>>>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wgQMOscLeeA3QXOs97xOz_CTxdqJjpC20tJ-7bUdHWtSA@mail.gmail.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Except it is ready and trying again is my responsibility, which means
>>>>> unnecessary work for me to do. I've already got a ton of things to do.
>>>>> Applying the device tree patch resolves this regression; no reverts
>>>>> needed.
>>>>> And then there's the patch in the works by Daniel that will address
>>>>> all the
>>>>> remaining cases outside of the reported regression.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The commit that fixes your breakage in a way that does *not* please me
>>>> (because of older devicetrees being still broken with the new driver)
>>>> was
>>>> picked and it is in v6.11-rc1.
>>>>
>>>> I had to do this because I value the community (in this case, the
>>>> users) much
>>>> more than trying to make an arrogant developer to act in a
>>>> community-friendly
>>>> manner while leaving things completely broken.
>>>>
>>>> That said, remembering that we're humans and, as such, it's normal to
>>>> get something
>>>> wrong during the development process, I want to remind you that:
>>>>
>>>>   1. A series that creates regressions is *not* good and *not* ready to
>>>> be
>>>>      upstreamed; and
>>>>   2. As a maintainer, you have the responsibility of not breaking the
>>>> kernel,
>>>>      not breaking devices and not breaking currently working
>>>> functionality; and
>>>>   3. Devicetrees being wrong (but working) since day 0 is not an excuse
>>>> to break
>>>>      functionality; and
>>>>   4. Blaming the one who introduced the devicetree (you're doing that,
>>>> since you
>>>>      are blaming the devicetree being wrong) isn't solving anything and
>>>> will not
>>>>      magically make your code acceptable or good; and
>>>>   5. If you push a wrong commit, there's nothing to be ashamed of; and
>>>>   6. If you make a mistake, you should recognize that and find a way to
>>>>      make things right, that should be done for the community, not for
>>>>      yourself; and
>>>>   7. You shall respect the community: in this case, with your arrogant
>>>> behavior
>>>>      you did *not* respect the users.
>>>>
>>>> P.S.: The right way of making such change is to:
>>>>        1. Avoid breaking currently working devices by making sure that
>>>> their DT
>>>>           still works with the new driver; and
>>>>        2. If breakage is unavoidable, make it so one kernel version has
>>>> a fix that
>>>>           works with both old and new driver, and the next version
>>>> introduces the
>>>>           breakage. N.2 should ideally never happen, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Let's wrap up this matter now - I don't want to spend any more word,
>>>> nor time,
>>>> on this, as I really have nothing else to say.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Angelo
>>>
>>> To be clear, I only became aware that my patch was picked by reading
>>> this
>>> email. It is clear that we have different views. To that extend, all of
>>> what you have written above can be answered to by reading what I have
>>> already written in this thread. Therefore, I don't see any wrongdoing
>>> from
>>> my side and invite everyone to fully read this thread to draw their own
>>> conclusions; something you seem not to have done. And I'm not the one,
>>> calling people names here. I can only offer my respect for hard working
>>> people.
>>>
>>> In my view, your behaviour of not applying a devicetree patch before a
>>> Linux driver patch was applied, and then not replying to any arguments
>>> whatsoever, was keeping the devicetree files hostage until your demands
>>
>> Hm, why ever DTS patch should be applied before driver patch is? This
>> clearly suggests ABI break. You proposed to fix ABI issue by fixing DTS,
>> which is not the way, because it literally fixes nothing. You got
>> comments - fix the driver to be backwards compatible.
> 
> As I argued in this thread, I see no ABI issue here. I proposed to fix
> broken devicetrees, nothing more. Please read the full thread to understand
> where I'm coming from.

I read most of it and it does suggest ABI break. But even if you do not
focus on that aspect, your suggestion that DTS should be applied before
driver patch is just wrong. It was never like this and it must not be
like this.

Best regards,
Krzysztof

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