Message-ID: <CALOAHbBEF=i7e+Zet-L3vEyQRcwmOn7b6vmut0-ae8_DQipOAw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 11:02:50 +0800
From: Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@...il.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>
Cc: Kent Overstreet <kent.overstreet@...ux.dev>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>, 
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Dave Chinner <dchinner@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] bcachefs: Switch to memalloc_flags_do() for vmalloc allocations

On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 11:35 AM Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 05:14:28PM +0800, Yafang Shao wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 10:29 PM Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 07:55:08AM -0400, Kent Overstreet wrote:
> > > > Ergo, if you're not absolutely sure that a GFP_NOFAIL use is safe
> > > > according to call path and allocation size, you still need to be
> > > > checking for failure - in the same way that you shouldn't be using
> > > > BUG_ON() if you cannot prove that the condition won't occur in real wold
> > > > usage.
> > >
> > > We've been using __GFP_NOFAIL semantics in XFS heavily for 30 years
> > > now. This was the default Irix kernel allocator behaviour (it had a
> > > forwards progress guarantee and would never fail allocation unless
> > > told it could do so). We've been using the same "guaranteed not to
> > > fail" semantics on Linux since the original port started 25 years
> > > ago via open-coded loops.
> > >
> > > IOWs, __GFP_NOFAIL semantics have been production tested for a
> > > couple of decades on Linux via XFS, and nobody here can argue that
> > > XFS is unreliable or crashes in low memory scenarios. __GFP_NOFAIL
> > > as it is used by XFS is reliable and lives up to the "will not fail"
> > > guarantee that it is supposed to have.
> > >
> > > Fundamentally, __GFP_NOFAIL came about to replace the callers doing
> > >
> > >         do {
> > >                 p = kmalloc(size);
> > >         while (!p);
> > >
> > > so that they blocked until memory allocation succeeded. The call
> > > sites do not check for failure, because -failure never occurs-.
> > >
> > > The MM devs want to have visibility of these allocations - they may
> > > not like them, but having __GFP_NOFAIL means it's trivial to audit
> > > all the allocations that use these semantics.  IOWs, __GFP_NOFAIL
> > > was created with an explicit guarantee that it -will not fail- for
> > > normal allocation contexts so it could replace all the open-coded
> > > will-not-fail allocation loops..
> > >
> > > Given this guarantee, we recently removed these historic allocation
> > > wrapper loops from XFS, and replaced them with __GFP_NOFAIL at the
> > > allocation call sites. There's nearly a hundred memory allocation
> > > locations in XFS that are tagged with __GFP_NOFAIL.
> > >
> > > If we're now going to have the "will not fail" guarantee taken away
> > > from __GFP_NOFAIL, then we cannot use __GFP_NOFAIL in XFS. Nor can
> > > it be used anywhere else that a "will not fail" guarantee it
> > > required.
> > >
> > > Put simply: __GFP_NOFAIL will be rendered completely useless if it
> > > can fail due to external scoped memory allocation contexts.  This
> > > will force us to revert all __GFP_NOFAIL allocations back to
> > > open-coded will-not-fail loops.
> > >
> > > This is not a step forwards for anyone.
> >
> > Hello Dave,
> >
> > I've noticed that XFS has increasingly replaced kmem_alloc() with
> > __GFP_NOFAIL. For example, in kernel 4.19.y, there are 0 instances of
> > __GFP_NOFAIL under fs/xfs, but in kernel 6.1.y, there are 41
> > occurrences. In kmem_alloc(), there's an explicit
> > memalloc_retry_wait() to throttle the allocator under heavy memory
> > pressure, which aligns with your filesystem design. However, using
> > __GFP_NOFAIL removes this throttling mechanism, potentially causing
> > issues when the system is under heavy memory load. I'm concerned that
> > this shift might not be a beneficial trend.
>
> AIUI, the memory allocation looping has back-offs already built in
> to it when memory reserves are exhausted and/or reclaim is
> congested.
>
> e.g:
>
> get_page_from_freelist()
>   (zone below watermark)
>   node_reclaim()
>     __node_reclaim()
>       shrink_node()
>         reclaim_throttle()

It applies to all kinds of allocations.

>
> And the call to recalim_throttle() will do the equivalent of
> memalloc_retry_wait() (a 2ms sleep).

I'm wondering if we should take special action for __GFP_NOFAIL, as
currently, it only results in an endless loop with no intervention.

>
> > We have been using XFS for our big data servers for years, and it has
> > consistently performed well with older kernels like 4.19.y. However,
> > after upgrading all our servers from 4.19.y to 6.1.y over the past two
> > years, we have frequently encountered livelock issues caused by memory
> > exhaustion. To mitigate this, we've had to limit the RSS of
> > applications, which isn't an ideal solution and represents a worrying
> > trend.
>
> If userspace uses all of memory all the time, then the best the
> kernel can do is slowly limp along. Preventing userspace from
> overcommitting memory to the point of OOM is the only way to avoid
> these "userspace space wants more memory than the machine physically
> has" sorts of issues. i.e. this is not a problem that the kernel
> code can solve short of randomly killing userspace applications...

We expect an OOM event, but it never occurs, which is a problem.

--
Regards

Yafang

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