Message-ID: <88414a1b-4f1b-42cb-885b-965ef092a8ba@arm.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 11:43:44 +0100
From: Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>
To: Shanker Donthineni <sdonthineni@...dia.com>,
 Steven Price <steven.price@....com>, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
 kvmarm@...ts.linux.dev
Cc: Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>, Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>,
 Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, James Morse <james.morse@....com>,
 Oliver Upton <oliver.upton@...ux.dev>, Zenghui Yu <yuzenghui@...wei.com>,
 linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
 Joey Gouly <joey.gouly@....com>, Alexandru Elisei
 <alexandru.elisei@....com>, Christoffer Dall <christoffer.dall@....com>,
 Fuad Tabba <tabba@...gle.com>, linux-coco@...ts.linux.dev,
 Ganapatrao Kulkarni <gankulkarni@...amperecomputing.com>,
 Gavin Shan <gshan@...hat.com>, Alper Gun <alpergun@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 09/43] arm64: RME: ioctls to create and configure
 realms

On 06/09/2024 20:05, Shanker Donthineni wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/21/24 10:38, Steven Price wrote:
>> External email: Use caution opening links or attachments
>>
>>
>> Add the KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CREATE_RD ioctl to create a realm. This involves
>> delegating pages to the RMM to hold the Realm Descriptor (RD) and for
>> the base level of the Realm Translation Tables (RTT). A VMID also need
>> to be picked, since the RMM has a separate VMID address space a
>> dedicated allocator is added for this purpose.
>>
>> KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CONFIG_REALM is provided to allow configuring the realm
>> before it is created. Configuration options can be classified as:
>>
>>   1. Parameters specific to the Realm stage2 (e.g. IPA Size, vmid, stage2
>>      entry level, entry level RTTs, number of RTTs in start level, LPA2)
>>      Most of these are not measured by RMM and comes from KVM book
>>      keeping.
>>
>>   2. Parameters controlling "Arm Architecture features for the VM". (e.g.
>>      SVE VL, PMU counters, number of HW BRPs/WPs), configured by the VMM
>>      using the "user ID register write" mechanism. These will be
>>      supported in the later patches.
>>
>>   3. Parameters are not part of the core Arm architecture but defined
>>      by the RMM spec (e.g. Hash algorithm for measurement,
>>      Personalisation value). These are programmed via
>>      KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CONFIG_REALM.
>>
>> For the IPA size there is the possibility that the RMM supports a
>> different size to the IPA size supported by KVM for normal guests. At
>> the moment the 'normal limit' is exposed by KVM_CAP_ARM_VM_IPA_SIZE and
>> the IPA size is configured by the bottom bits of vm_type in
>> KVM_CREATE_VM. This means that it isn't easy for the VMM to discover
>> what IPA sizes are supported for Realm guests. Since the IPA is part of
>> the measurement of the realm guest the current expectation is that the
>> VMM will be required to pick the IPA size demanded by attestation and
>> therefore simply failing if this isn't available is fine. An option
>> would be to expose a new capability ioctl to obtain the RMM's maximum
>> IPA size if this is needed in the future.
>>
>> Co-developed-by: Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>
>> Signed-off-by: Suzuki K Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>
>> Signed-off-by: Steven Price <steven.price@....com>
>> ---
>> Changes since v2:
>>   * Improved commit description.
>>   * Improved return failures for rmi_check_version().
>>   * Clear contents of PGD after it has been undelegated in case the RMM
>>     left stale data.
>>   * Minor changes to reflect changes in previous patches.
>> ---
>>   arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_emulate.h |   5 +
>>   arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_rme.h     |  19 ++
>>   arch/arm64/kvm/arm.c                 |  18 ++
>>   arch/arm64/kvm/mmu.c                 |  20 +-
>>   arch/arm64/kvm/rme.c                 | 283 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>   5 files changed, 341 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)
>>
>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_emulate.h 
>> b/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_emulate.h
>> index c7bfb6788c96..5edcfb1b6c68 100644
>> --- a/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_emulate.h
>> +++ b/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_emulate.h
>> @@ -705,6 +705,11 @@ static inline enum realm_state 
>> kvm_realm_state(struct kvm *kvm)
>>          return READ_ONCE(kvm->arch.realm.state);
>>   }
>>
>> +static inline bool kvm_realm_is_created(struct kvm *kvm)
>> +{
>> +       return kvm_is_realm(kvm) && kvm_realm_state(kvm) != 
>> REALM_STATE_NONE;
>> +}
>> +
>>   static inline bool vcpu_is_rec(struct kvm_vcpu *vcpu)
>>   {
>>          return false;
>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_rme.h 
>> b/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_rme.h
>> index 69af5c3a1e44..209cd99f03dd 100644
>> --- a/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_rme.h
>> +++ b/arch/arm64/include/asm/kvm_rme.h
>> @@ -6,6 +6,8 @@
>>   #ifndef __ASM_KVM_RME_H
>>   #define __ASM_KVM_RME_H
>>
>> +#include <uapi/linux/kvm.h>
>> +
>>   /**
>>    * enum realm_state - State of a Realm
>>    */
>> @@ -46,11 +48,28 @@ enum realm_state {
>>    * struct realm - Additional per VM data for a Realm
>>    *
>>    * @state: The lifetime state machine for the realm
>> + * @rd: Kernel mapping of the Realm Descriptor (RD)
>> + * @params: Parameters for the RMI_REALM_CREATE command
>> + * @num_aux: The number of auxiliary pages required by the RMM
>> + * @vmid: VMID to be used by the RMM for the realm
>> + * @ia_bits: Number of valid Input Address bits in the IPA
>>    */
>>   struct realm {
>>          enum realm_state state;
>> +
>> +       void *rd;
>> +       struct realm_params *params;
>> +
>> +       unsigned long num_aux;
>> +       unsigned int vmid;
>> +       unsigned int ia_bits;
>>   };
>>
>>   void kvm_init_rme(void);
>> +u32 kvm_realm_ipa_limit(void);
>> +
>> +int kvm_realm_enable_cap(struct kvm *kvm, struct kvm_enable_cap *cap);
>> +int kvm_init_realm_vm(struct kvm *kvm);
>> +void kvm_destroy_realm(struct kvm *kvm);
>>
>>   #endif
>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/kvm/arm.c b/arch/arm64/kvm/arm.c
>> index 71ffcc766eeb..15c7c2cabbf7 100644
>> --- a/arch/arm64/kvm/arm.c
>> +++ b/arch/arm64/kvm/arm.c
>> @@ -152,6 +152,13 @@ int kvm_vm_ioctl_enable_cap(struct kvm *kvm,
>>                  }
>>                  mutex_unlock(&kvm->slots_lock);
>>                  break;
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME:
>> +               if (!kvm_is_realm(kvm))
>> +                       return -EINVAL;
>> +               mutex_lock(&kvm->lock);
>> +               r = kvm_realm_enable_cap(kvm, cap);
>> +               mutex_unlock(&kvm->lock);
>> +               break;
>>          default:
>>                  break;
>>          }
>> @@ -213,6 +220,13 @@ int kvm_arch_init_vm(struct kvm *kvm, unsigned 
>> long type)
>>
>>          bitmap_zero(kvm->arch.vcpu_features, KVM_VCPU_MAX_FEATURES);
>>
>> +       /* Initialise the realm bits after the generic bits are 
>> enabled */
>> +       if (kvm_is_realm(kvm)) {
>> +               ret = kvm_init_realm_vm(kvm);
>> +               if (ret)
>> +                       goto err_free_cpumask;
>> +       }
>> +
>>          return 0;
>>
>>   err_free_cpumask:
>> @@ -271,6 +285,7 @@ void kvm_arch_destroy_vm(struct kvm *kvm)
>>          kvm_unshare_hyp(kvm, kvm + 1);
>>
>>          kvm_arm_teardown_hypercalls(kvm);
>> +       kvm_destroy_realm(kvm);
>>   }
>>
>>   static bool kvm_has_full_ptr_auth(void)
>> @@ -418,6 +433,9 @@ int kvm_vm_ioctl_check_extension(struct kvm *kvm, 
>> long ext)
>>          case KVM_CAP_ARM_SUPPORTED_REG_MASK_RANGES:
>>                  r = BIT(0);
>>                  break;
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME:
>> +               r = static_key_enabled(&kvm_rme_is_available);
>> +               break;
>>          default:
>>                  r = 0;
>>          }
>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/kvm/mmu.c b/arch/arm64/kvm/mmu.c
>> index 6981b1bc0946..2257a3b4fb06 100644
>> --- a/arch/arm64/kvm/mmu.c
>> +++ b/arch/arm64/kvm/mmu.c
>> @@ -862,11 +862,16 @@ static struct kvm_pgtable_mm_ops kvm_s2_mm_ops = {
>>          .icache_inval_pou       = invalidate_icache_guest_page,
>>   };
>>
>> -static int kvm_init_ipa_range(struct kvm_s2_mmu *mmu, unsigned long 
>> type)
>> +static int kvm_init_ipa_range(struct kvm *kvm,
>> +                             struct kvm_s2_mmu *mmu, unsigned long type)
>>   {
>>          u32 kvm_ipa_limit = get_kvm_ipa_limit();
>>          u64 mmfr0, mmfr1;
>>          u32 phys_shift;
>> +       u32 ipa_limit = kvm_ipa_limit;
>> +
>> +       if (kvm_is_realm(kvm))
>> +               ipa_limit = kvm_realm_ipa_limit();
>>
>>          if (type & ~KVM_VM_TYPE_ARM_IPA_SIZE_MASK)
>>                  return -EINVAL;
>> @@ -875,12 +880,12 @@ static int kvm_init_ipa_range(struct kvm_s2_mmu 
>> *mmu, unsigned long type)
>>          if (is_protected_kvm_enabled()) {
>>                  phys_shift = kvm_ipa_limit;
>>          } else if (phys_shift) {
>> -               if (phys_shift > kvm_ipa_limit ||
>> +               if (phys_shift > ipa_limit ||
>>                      phys_shift < ARM64_MIN_PARANGE_BITS)
>>                          return -EINVAL;
>>          } else {
>>                  phys_shift = KVM_PHYS_SHIFT;
>> -               if (phys_shift > kvm_ipa_limit) {
>> +               if (phys_shift > ipa_limit) {
>>                          pr_warn_once("%s using unsupported default 
>> IPA limit, upgrade your VMM\n",
>>                                       current->comm);
>>                          return -EINVAL;
>> @@ -932,7 +937,7 @@ int kvm_init_stage2_mmu(struct kvm *kvm, struct 
>> kvm_s2_mmu *mmu, unsigned long t
>>                  return -EINVAL;
>>          }
>>
>> -       err = kvm_init_ipa_range(mmu, type);
>> +       err = kvm_init_ipa_range(kvm, mmu, type);
>>          if (err)
>>                  return err;
>>
>> @@ -1055,6 +1060,13 @@ void kvm_free_stage2_pgd(struct kvm_s2_mmu *mmu)
>>          struct kvm_pgtable *pgt = NULL;
>>
>>          write_lock(&kvm->mmu_lock);
>> +       if (kvm_is_realm(kvm) &&
>> +           (kvm_realm_state(kvm) != REALM_STATE_DEAD &&
>> +            kvm_realm_state(kvm) != REALM_STATE_NONE)) {
>> +               /* Tearing down RTTs will be added in a later patch */
>> +               write_unlock(&kvm->mmu_lock);
>> +               return;
>> +       }
>>          pgt = mmu->pgt;
>>          if (pgt) {
>>                  mmu->pgd_phys = 0;
>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/kvm/rme.c b/arch/arm64/kvm/rme.c
>> index 418685fbf6ed..4d21ec5f2910 100644
>> --- a/arch/arm64/kvm/rme.c
>> +++ b/arch/arm64/kvm/rme.c
>> @@ -5,9 +5,20 @@
>>
>>   #include <linux/kvm_host.h>
>>
>> +#include <asm/kvm_emulate.h>
>> +#include <asm/kvm_mmu.h>
>>   #include <asm/rmi_cmds.h>
>>   #include <asm/virt.h>
>>
>> +#include <asm/kvm_pgtable.h>
>> +
>> +static unsigned long rmm_feat_reg0;
>> +
>> +static bool rme_supports(unsigned long feature)
>> +{
>> +       return !!u64_get_bits(rmm_feat_reg0, feature);
>> +}
>> +
>>   static int rmi_check_version(void)
>>   {
>>          struct arm_smccc_res res;
>> @@ -36,6 +47,272 @@ static int rmi_check_version(void)
>>          return 0;
>>   }
>>
>> +u32 kvm_realm_ipa_limit(void)
>> +{
>> +       return u64_get_bits(rmm_feat_reg0, RMI_FEATURE_REGISTER_0_S2SZ);
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int get_start_level(struct realm *realm)
>> +{
>> +       return 4 - stage2_pgtable_levels(realm->ia_bits);
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int realm_create_rd(struct kvm *kvm)
>> +{
>> +       struct realm *realm = &kvm->arch.realm;
>> +       struct realm_params *params = realm->params;
>> +       void *rd = NULL;
>> +       phys_addr_t rd_phys, params_phys;
>> +       struct kvm_pgtable *pgt = kvm->arch.mmu.pgt;
>> +       int i, r;
>> +
>> +       if (WARN_ON(realm->rd) || WARN_ON(!realm->params))
>> +               return -EEXIST;
>> +
>> +       rd = (void *)__get_free_page(GFP_KERNEL);
>> +       if (!rd)
>> +               return -ENOMEM;
>> +
>> +       rd_phys = virt_to_phys(rd);
>> +       if (rmi_granule_delegate(rd_phys)) {
>> +               r = -ENXIO;
>> +               goto free_rd;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       for (i = 0; i < pgt->pgd_pages; i++) {
>> +               phys_addr_t pgd_phys = kvm->arch.mmu.pgd_phys + i * 
>> PAGE_SIZE;
>> +
>> +               if (rmi_granule_delegate(pgd_phys)) {
>> +                       r = -ENXIO;
>> +                       goto out_undelegate_tables;
>> +               }
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       realm->ia_bits = VTCR_EL2_IPA(kvm->arch.mmu.vtcr);
>> +
>> +       params->s2sz = VTCR_EL2_IPA(kvm->arch.mmu.vtcr);
>> +       params->rtt_level_start = get_start_level(realm);
>> +       params->rtt_num_start = pgt->pgd_pages;
>> +       params->rtt_base = kvm->arch.mmu.pgd_phys;
>> +       params->vmid = realm->vmid;
>> +
>> +       params_phys = virt_to_phys(params);
>> +
>> +       if (rmi_realm_create(rd_phys, params_phys)) {
>> +               r = -ENXIO;
>> +               goto out_undelegate_tables;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       realm->rd = rd;
>> +
>> +       if (WARN_ON(rmi_rec_aux_count(rd_phys, &realm->num_aux))) {
>> +               WARN_ON(rmi_realm_destroy(rd_phys));
>> +               goto out_undelegate_tables;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       return 0;
>> +
>> +out_undelegate_tables:
>> +       while (--i >= 0) {
>> +               phys_addr_t pgd_phys = kvm->arch.mmu.pgd_phys + i * 
>> PAGE_SIZE;
>> +
>> +               WARN_ON(rmi_granule_undelegate(pgd_phys));
>> +       }
>> +       WARN_ON(rmi_granule_undelegate(rd_phys));
>> +free_rd:
>> +       free_page((unsigned long)rd);
>> +       return r;
>> +}
>> +
>> +/* Protects access to rme_vmid_bitmap */
>> +static DEFINE_SPINLOCK(rme_vmid_lock);
>> +static unsigned long *rme_vmid_bitmap;
>> +
>> +static int rme_vmid_init(void)
>> +{
>> +       unsigned int vmid_count = 1 << kvm_get_vmid_bits();
>> +
>> +       rme_vmid_bitmap = bitmap_zalloc(vmid_count, GFP_KERNEL);
>> +       if (!rme_vmid_bitmap) {
>> +               kvm_err("%s: Couldn't allocate rme vmid bitmap\n", 
>> __func__);
>> +               return -ENOMEM;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       return 0;
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int rme_vmid_reserve(void)
>> +{
>> +       int ret;
>> +       unsigned int vmid_count = 1 << kvm_get_vmid_bits();
>> +
>> +       spin_lock(&rme_vmid_lock);
>> +       ret = bitmap_find_free_region(rme_vmid_bitmap, vmid_count, 0);
>> +       spin_unlock(&rme_vmid_lock);
>> +
>> +       return ret;
>> +}
>> +
>> +static void rme_vmid_release(unsigned int vmid)
>> +{
>> +       spin_lock(&rme_vmid_lock);
>> +       bitmap_release_region(rme_vmid_bitmap, vmid, 0);
>> +       spin_unlock(&rme_vmid_lock);
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int kvm_create_realm(struct kvm *kvm)
>> +{
>> +       struct realm *realm = &kvm->arch.realm;
>> +       int ret;
>> +
>> +       if (!kvm_is_realm(kvm))
>> +               return -EINVAL;
>> +       if (kvm_realm_is_created(kvm))
>> +               return -EEXIST;
>> +
>> +       ret = rme_vmid_reserve();
>> +       if (ret < 0)
>> +               return ret;
>> +       realm->vmid = ret;
>> +
>> +       ret = realm_create_rd(kvm);
>> +       if (ret) {
>> +               rme_vmid_release(realm->vmid);
>> +               return ret;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       WRITE_ONCE(realm->state, REALM_STATE_NEW);
>> +
>> +       /* The realm is up, free the parameters.  */
>> +       free_page((unsigned long)realm->params);
>> +       realm->params = NULL;
> Is there a specific reason for freeing the params? The pointer is
> referenced in rtt_get_phys() without a NULL check, which leads to
> a kernel crash.
> 
> static phys_addr_t rtt_get_phys(struct realm *realm, struct rtt_entry *rtt)
> {
>          bool lpa2 = realm->params->flags & RMI_REALM_PARAM_FLAG_LPA2;
> 

Good catch. The params is a full PAGE (4K) which is passed on to the RMM
for initial parameters and we don't need as much space to keep track of
the realm attributes. Hence we free it after the use.

The LPA2 flag could be cached in the struct realm instead.

Suzuki


>> +
>> +       return 0;
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int config_realm_hash_algo(struct realm *realm,
>> +                                 struct kvm_cap_arm_rme_config_item 
>> *cfg)
>> +{
>> +       switch (cfg->hash_algo) {
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_MEASUREMENT_ALGO_SHA256:
>> +               if (!rme_supports(RMI_FEATURE_REGISTER_0_HASH_SHA_256))
>> +                       return -EINVAL;
>> +               break;
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_MEASUREMENT_ALGO_SHA512:
>> +               if (!rme_supports(RMI_FEATURE_REGISTER_0_HASH_SHA_512))
>> +                       return -EINVAL;
>> +               break;
>> +       default:
>> +               return -EINVAL;
>> +       }
>> +       realm->params->hash_algo = cfg->hash_algo;
>> +       return 0;
>> +}
>> +
>> +static int kvm_rme_config_realm(struct kvm *kvm, struct 
>> kvm_enable_cap *cap)
>> +{
>> +       struct kvm_cap_arm_rme_config_item cfg;
>> +       struct realm *realm = &kvm->arch.realm;
>> +       int r = 0;
>> +
>> +       if (kvm_realm_is_created(kvm))
>> +               return -EBUSY;
>> +
>> +       if (copy_from_user(&cfg, (void __user *)cap->args[1], 
>> sizeof(cfg)))
>> +               return -EFAULT;
>> +
>> +       switch (cfg.cfg) {
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CFG_RPV:
>> +               memcpy(&realm->params->rpv, &cfg.rpv, sizeof(cfg.rpv));
>> +               break;
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CFG_HASH_ALGO:
>> +               r = config_realm_hash_algo(realm, &cfg);
>> +               break;
>> +       default:
>> +               r = -EINVAL;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       return r;
>> +}
>> +
>> +int kvm_realm_enable_cap(struct kvm *kvm, struct kvm_enable_cap *cap)
>> +{
>> +       int r = 0;
>> +
>> +       if (!kvm_is_realm(kvm))
>> +               return -EINVAL;
>> +
>> +       switch (cap->args[0]) {
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CONFIG_REALM:
>> +               r = kvm_rme_config_realm(kvm, cap);
>> +               break;
>> +       case KVM_CAP_ARM_RME_CREATE_RD:
>> +               r = kvm_create_realm(kvm);
>> +               break;
>> +       default:
>> +               r = -EINVAL;
>> +               break;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       return r;
>> +}
>> +
>> +void kvm_destroy_realm(struct kvm *kvm)
>> +{
>> +       struct realm *realm = &kvm->arch.realm;
>> +       struct kvm_pgtable *pgt = kvm->arch.mmu.pgt;
>> +       int i;
>> +
>> +       if (realm->params) {
>> +               free_page((unsigned long)realm->params);
>> +               realm->params = NULL;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       if (!kvm_realm_is_created(kvm))
>> +               return;
>> +
>> +       WRITE_ONCE(realm->state, REALM_STATE_DYING);
>> +
>> +       if (realm->rd) {
>> +               phys_addr_t rd_phys = virt_to_phys(realm->rd);
>> +
>> +               if (WARN_ON(rmi_realm_destroy(rd_phys)))
>> +                       return;
>> +               if (WARN_ON(rmi_granule_undelegate(rd_phys)))
>> +                       return;
>> +               free_page((unsigned long)realm->rd);
>> +               realm->rd = NULL;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       rme_vmid_release(realm->vmid);
>> +
>> +       for (i = 0; i < pgt->pgd_pages; i++) {
>> +               phys_addr_t pgd_phys = kvm->arch.mmu.pgd_phys + i * 
>> PAGE_SIZE;
>> +
>> +               if (WARN_ON(rmi_granule_undelegate(pgd_phys)))
>> +                       return;
>> +
>> +               clear_page(phys_to_virt(pgd_phys));
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       WRITE_ONCE(realm->state, REALM_STATE_DEAD);
>> +
>> +       /* Now that the Realm is destroyed, free the entry level RTTs */
>> +       kvm_free_stage2_pgd(&kvm->arch.mmu);
>> +}
>> +
>> +int kvm_init_realm_vm(struct kvm *kvm)
>> +{
>> +       struct realm_params *params;
>> +
>> +       params = (struct realm_params *)get_zeroed_page(GFP_KERNEL);
>> +       if (!params)
>> +               return -ENOMEM;
>> +
>> +       kvm->arch.realm.params = params;
>> +       return 0;
>> +}
>> +
>>   void kvm_init_rme(void)
>>   {
>>          if (PAGE_SIZE != SZ_4K)
>> @@ -46,5 +323,11 @@ void kvm_init_rme(void)
>>                  /* Continue without realm support */
>>                  return;
>>
>> +       if (WARN_ON(rmi_features(0, &rmm_feat_reg0)))
>> +               return;
>> +
>> +       if (rme_vmid_init())
>> +               return;
>> +
>>          /* Future patch will enable static branch 
>> kvm_rme_is_available */
>>   }
>> -- 
>> 2.34.1
>>
> 

Powered by blists - more mailing lists