Message-ID: <CAP-5=fV23r-_yVvGP3n5gjH8uZ2rEXmbZEwxr2wF+bpg=m745A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2024 10:59:59 -0800
From: Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com>
To: Atish Kumar Patra <atishp@...osinc.com>
Cc: James Clark <james.clark@...aro.org>, linux-perf-users@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Ben Gainey <ben.gainey@....com>, 
	Junhao He <hejunhao3@...wei.com>, linux-riscv@...ts.infradead.org, beeman@...osinc.com, 
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, 
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@...nel.org>, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>, 
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@....com>, Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>, 
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@...ux.intel.com>, Kan Liang <kan.liang@...ux.intel.com>, 
	Ze Gao <zegao2021@...il.com>, Weilin Wang <weilin.wang@...el.com>, 
	Dominique Martinet <asmadeus@...ewreck.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 0/4] Prefer sysfs/JSON events also when no PMU is provided

On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 10:38 AM Atish Kumar Patra <atishp@...osinc.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 4:16 AM James Clark <james.clark@...aro.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/11/2024 18:51, Ian Rogers wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 26, 2024 at 5:18 AM Ian Rogers <irogers@...gle.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> At the RISC-V summit the topic of avoiding event data being in the
> > >> RISC-V PMU kernel driver came up. There is a preference for sysfs/JSON
> > >> events being the priority when no PMU is provided so that legacy
> > >> events maybe supported via json. Originally Mark Rutland also
> > >> expressed at LPC 2023 that doing this would resolve bugs on ARM Apple
> > >> M? processors, but James Clark more recently tested this and believes
> > >> the driver issues there may not have existed or have been resolved. In
> > >> any case, it is inconsistent that with a PMU event names avoid legacy
> > >> encodings, but when wildcarding PMUs (ie without a PMU with the event
> > >> name) the legacy encodings have priority.
> > >>
> > >> The patch doing this work was reverted in a v6.10 release candidate
> > >> as, even though the patch was posted for weeks and had been on
> > >> linux-next for weeks without issue, Linus was in the habit of using
> > >> explicit legacy events with unsupported precision options on his
> > >> Neoverse-N1. This machine has SLC PMU events for bus and CPU cycles
> > >> where ARM decided to call the events bus_cycles and cycles, the latter
> > >> being also a legacy event name. ARM haven't renamed the cycles event
> > >> to a more consistent cpu_cycles and avoided the problem. With these
> > >> changes the problematic event will now be skipped, a large warning
> > >> produced, and perf record will continue for the other PMU events. This
> > >> solution was proposed by Arnaldo.
> > >>
> > >> Two minor changes have been added to help with the error message and
> > >> to work around issues occurring with "perf stat metrics (shadow stat)
> > >> test".
> > >>
> > >> The patches have only been tested on my x86 non-hybrid laptop.
> > >
> > > Hi Atish and James,
> > >
> > > Could I get your tags for this series?
> > >
>
> Hi Ian,
> Thanks for your patches. It definitely helps to have a clean slate
> implementation
> for the perf tool. However, I have some open questions about other use cases
> that we discussed during the RVI Summit.

Thanks Atish, could I get your acked/reviewed/tested tags?

Ian

> > > The patches were originally motivated by wanting to make the behavior
> > > of events parsed like "cycles" match that of "cpu/cycles/", the PMU is
> > > wildcarded to "cpu" in the first case. This was divergent because of
> > > ARM we switched from preferring legacy (type = PERF_TYPE_HARDWARE,
> > > config = PERF_COUNT_HW_CPU_CYCLES) to sysfs/json (type=<core PMU's
> > > type>, config=<encoding from event>) when a PMU name was given. This
> > > aligns with RISC-V wanting to use json encodings to avoid complexity
> > > in the PMU driver.
> > >
> >
> > I couldn't find the thread, but I remember fairly recently it was
> > mentioned that RISC-V would be supporting the legacy events after all,
> > maybe it was a comment from Atish? I'm not sure if that changes the
> > requirements for this or not?
> >
> > I still can't really imagine how tooling would work if every tool has to
> > maintain the mappings of basic events like instructions and branches.
> > For example all the perf_event_open tests in ltp use the legacy events.
> >
>
> No it has not changed. While this series helps to avoid clunky vendor
> specific encodings
> in the driver for perf tool, I am still unsure how we will manage
> other applications
> (directly passing legacy events through perf_event_open or
> perf_evlist__open) will work.
>
> I have only anecdotal data about folks relying perf legacy events
> directly to profile
> their application. All of them use mostly cycle/instruction events though.
> Are there any users who use other legacy events directly without perf tool ?
>
> If not, we may have only cycle/instruction mapping in the driver and
> rely on json for everything else.
> The other use case is virtualization. I have been playing with these
> patches to find a clean solution to
> enable all the use cases. If you have any other ideas, please let me know.
>
> > And wouldn't porting existing software to RISC-V would be an issue if it
> > doesn't behave in a similar way to what's there already?
> >
> > > James, could you show the neoverse with the cmn PMU behavior for perf
> > > record of "cycles:pp" due to sensitivities there.
> > >
> >
> > Yep I can check this on Monday.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ian
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Ian Rogers (4):
> > >>    perf evsel: Add pmu_name helper
> > >>    perf stat: Fix find_stat for mixed legacy/non-legacy events
> > >>    perf record: Skip don't fail for events that don't open
> > >>    perf parse-events: Reapply "Prefer sysfs/JSON hardware events over
> > >>      legacy"
> > >>
> > >>   tools/perf/builtin-record.c    | 22 +++++++---
> > >>   tools/perf/util/evsel.c        | 10 +++++
> > >>   tools/perf/util/evsel.h        |  1 +
> > >>   tools/perf/util/parse-events.c | 26 +++++++++---
> > >>   tools/perf/util/parse-events.l | 76 +++++++++++++++++-----------------
> > >>   tools/perf/util/parse-events.y | 60 ++++++++++++++++++---------
> > >>   tools/perf/util/pmus.c         | 20 +++++++--
> > >>   tools/perf/util/stat-shadow.c  |  3 +-
> > >>   8 files changed, 145 insertions(+), 73 deletions(-)
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> 2.47.0.163.g1226f6d8fa-goog
> > >>

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