Message-ID: <4751a528-67ac-4fb2-a0d4-441d3efd8d08@arm.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2025 15:40:07 +0530
From: Dev Jain <dev.jain@....com>
To: Ryan Roberts <ryan.roberts@....com>, Zi Yan <ziy@...dia.com>,
 akpm@...ux-foundation.org, david@...hat.com, willy@...radead.org,
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Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 12/12] selftests/mm: khugepaged: Enlighten for mTHP
 collapse


On 02/01/25 5:13 pm, Ryan Roberts wrote:
> On 30/12/2024 16:36, Zi Yan wrote:
>> On Mon Dec 30, 2024 at 2:09 AM EST, Dev Jain wrote:
>>> On 20/12/24 4:35 pm, Ryan Roberts wrote:
>>>> On 18/12/2024 09:50, Dev Jain wrote:
>>>>> On 18/12/24 2:33 pm, Ryan Roberts wrote:
>>>>>> On 16/12/2024 16:51, Dev Jain wrote:
>>>>>>> One of the testcases triggers a CoW on the 255th page (0-indexing) with
>>>>>>> max_ptes_shared = 256. This leads to 0-254 pages (255 in number) being unshared,
>>>>>>> and 257 pages shared, exceeding the constraint. Suppose we run the test as
>>>>>>> ./khugepaged -s 2. Therefore, khugepaged starts collapsing the range to order-2
>>>>>>> folios, since PMD-collapse will fail due to the constraint.
>>>>>>> When the scan reaches 254-257 PTE range, because at least one PTE in this range
>>>>>>> is writable, with other 3 being read-only, khugepaged collapses this into an
>>>>>>> order-2 mTHP, resulting in 3 extra PTEs getting unshared. After this, we
>>>>>>> encounter
>>>>>>> a 4-sized chunk of read-only PTEs, and mTHP collapse stops according to the
>>>>>>> scaled
>>>>>>> constraint, but the number of shared PTEs have now come under the constraint for
>>>>>>> PMD-sized THPs. Therefore, the next scan of khugepaged will be able to collapse
>>>>>>> this range into a PMD-mapped hugepage, leading to failure of this subtest. Fix
>>>>>>> this by reducing the CoW range.
>>>>>> Is this description essentially saying that it's now possible to creep towards
>>>>>> collapsing to a full PMD-size block over successive scans due to rounding errors
>>>>>> in the scaling? Or is this just trying an edge case and the problem doesn't
>>>>>> generalize?
>>>>> For this case, max_ptes_shared for order-2 is 256 >> (9 - 2) = 2, without
>>>>> rounding errors. We cannot
>>>>> really get a rounding problem because we are rounding down, essentially either
>>>>> keep the restriction
>>>>> same, or making it stricter, as we go down the orders.
>>>>>
>>>>> But thinking again, this behaviour may generalize: essentially, let us say that
>>>>> the distribution
>>>>> of none ptes vs filled ptes is very skewed for the PMD case. In a local region,
>>>>> this distribution
>>>>> may not be skewed, and then an mTHP collapse will occur, making this entire
>>>>> region uniform. Over time this
>>>>> may keep happening and then the region will become globally uniform to come
>>>>> under the PMD-constraint
>>>>> on max_ptes_none, and eventually PMD-collapse will occur. Which may beg the
>>>>> question whether we want
>>>>> to detach khugepaged orders from mTHP sysfs settings.
>>>> We want to avoid new user controls at all costs, I think.
>>>>
>>>> I think an example of the problem you are describing is: Let's say we start off
>>>> with all mTHP orders enabled and max_ptes_none is 50% (so 256). We have a 2M VMA
>>>> aligned over a single PMD. The first 2 4K pages of the VMA are allocated.
>>>>
>>>> khugepaged will scan this VMA and decide to collapse the first 4 PTEs to a
>>>> single order-2 (16K) folio; that's allowed because 50% of the PTEs were none.
>>>> But now on the next scan, 50% of the first 8 PTEs are none so it will collapse
>>>> to 32K. Then on the next scan it will collapse to 64K, and so on all the way to
>>>> 2M. So by faulting in 2 pages originally we have now collapsed to 2M dispite the
>>>> control trying to prevent it, and we have done it in a very inefficient way.
>>>>
>>>> If max_ptes_none was 75% you would only need every other order enabled (I think?).
>>>>
>>>> In practice perhaps it's not a problem because you are only likely to have 1 or
>>>> 2 mTHP sizes enabled. But I wonder if we need to think about how to protect from
>>>> this "creep"?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps only consider a large folio for collapse into a larger folio if it
>>>> wasn't originally collapsed by khugepaged in the first place? That would need a
>>>> folio flag... and I suspect that will cause other edge case issues if we think
>>>> about it for 5 mins...
>>>>
>>>> Another way of thinking about it is; if all the same mTHP orders were enabled at
>>>> fault time (and the allocation suceeded) we would have allocated the largest
>>>> order anyway, so the end states are the same. But the large number of
>>>> incremental collapses that khugepaged will perform feel like a problem.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite sure what the answer is.
>>> Can't really think of anything else apart from decoupling khugepaged sysfs from mTHP sysfs...
>> One (not so effective) workaround is to add a VMA flag to make
>> khugepaged to skip scanning a VMA that khugepaged has collapsed before
>> and reset the flag in a future page fault. This would prevent khugepaged
>> from doing this "creep" collapse behavior until the page tables covered
>> by the VMA is changed. This is not perfect, since the page faults might
>> not change the aforementioned region and later khugepaged can still
>> perform the "creep".
>>
> I guess what you really want is a bitmap with a bit per page in the VMA to tell
> you whether it exists due to fault or collapse. But... yuk...
>
> It looks like Ubuntu at least is not modifying the default max_ptes_none, which
> is 511. So for general purpose distros I guess we won't see this issue in
> practice because we will always collapse to the largest enabled size.

Will still see this problem for max_ptes_shared = 256...
We can set this to 255, so that the fraction progress as follows:
255/512 -> 127/256 -> 63/128 -> 31/64 -> 15/32 -> 7/16 -> 3/8 -> 1/4 -> 0/2
This is the best possible fractional decrease we can get since we always end
up on an odd number and lose a 1 due to rounding.
The only real solution seems to be to track whether the PTE/page we have is original
or collapsed.

>
> So with that in mind, perhaps Zi's suggested single VM flag idea will be good
> enough?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>

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