Message-ID: <20250401162732.731ef774@eldfell>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2025 16:27:32 +0300
From: Pekka Paalanen <pekka.paalanen@...oniitty.fi>
To: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com>
Cc: Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>, Tomi Valkeinen
 <tomi.valkeinen@...asonboard.com>, Vishal Sagar <vishal.sagar@....com>,
 Anatoliy Klymenko <anatoliy.klymenko@....com>, Maarten Lankhorst
 <maarten.lankhorst@...ux.intel.com>, Maxime Ripard <mripard@...nel.org>,
 Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@...e.de>, David Airlie <airlied@...il.com>,
 Simona Vetter <simona@...ll.ch>, Michal Simek <michal.simek@....com>,
 dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
 linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, Dmitry Baryshkov
 <dmitry.baryshkov@....qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 03/11] drm/fourcc: Add DRM_FORMAT_Y8

On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 13:53:37 +0300
Pekka Paalanen <pekka.paalanen@...oniitty.fi> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 11:21:35 +0300
> Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 10:54:46AM +0300, Pekka Paalanen wrote:  
> > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 17:35:39 +0100
> > > Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org> wrote:
> > >     
> > > > Hi Pekka,
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 at 16:59, Pekka Paalanen
> > > > <pekka.paalanen@...oniitty.fi> wrote:    
> > > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 16:21:16 +0200
> > > > > Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen@...asonboard.com> wrote:      
> > > > > > On 27/03/2025 11:20, Pekka Paalanen wrote:      
> > > > > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 15:55:18 +0200
> > > > > > > Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen@...asonboard.com> wrote:      
> > > > > > >> On 26/03/2025 15:52, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:      
> > > > > > >>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 at 14:23, Tomi Valkeinen
> > > > > > >>> <tomi.valkeinen@...asonboard.com> wrote:      
> > > > > > >>>> Add greyscale Y8 format.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Acked-by: Dmitry Baryshkov <dmitry.baryshkov@...aro.org>
> > > > > > >>>> Signed-off-by: Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen@...asonboard.com>      
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Thanks for your patch!
> > > > > > >>>      
> > > > > > >>>> --- a/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h
> > > > > > >>>> +++ b/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h
> > > > > > >>>> @@ -405,6 +405,9 @@ extern "C" {
> > > > > > >>>>    #define DRM_FORMAT_YUV444      fourcc_code('Y', 'U', '2', '4') /* non-subsampled Cb (1) and Cr (2) planes */
> > > > > > >>>>    #define DRM_FORMAT_YVU444      fourcc_code('Y', 'V', '2', '4') /* non-subsampled Cr (1) and Cb (2) planes */
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> +/* Greyscale formats */
> > > > > > >>>> +
> > > > > > >>>> +#define DRM_FORMAT_Y8          fourcc_code('G', 'R', 'E', 'Y')  /* 8-bit Y-only */      
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> This format differs from e.g. DRM_FORMAT_R8, which encodes
> > > > > > >>> the number of bits in the FOURCC format. What do you envision
> > > > > > >>> for e.g. DRM_FORMAT_Y16? fourcc_code('G', 'R', '1', '6')?      
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I wanted to use the same fourcc as on V4L2 side. Strictly speaking it's
> > > > > > >> not required, but different fourccs for the same formats do confuse.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> So, generally speaking, I'd pick an existing fourcc from v4l2 side if
> > > > > > >> possible, and if not, invent a new one.      
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what's the actual difference between DRM_FORMAT_R8 and DRM_FORMAT_Y8?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is the difference that when R8 gets expanded to RGB, it becomes (R, 0,
> > > > > > > 0), but Y8 gets expanded to (c1 * Y, c2 * Y, c3 * Y) where c1..c3 are
> > > > > > > defined by MatrixCoefficients (H.273 terminology)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That would be my intuitive assumption following how YCbCr is handled.
> > > > > > > Is it obvious enough, or should there be a comment to that effect?      
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You raise an interesting point. Is it defined how a display driver, that
> > > > > > supports R8 as a format, shows R8 on screen? I came into this in the
> > > > > > context of grayscale formats, so I thought R8 would be handled as (R, R,
> > > > > > R) in RGB. But you say (R, 0, 0), which... also makes sense.      
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a good question too. I based my assumption on OpenGL behavior
> > > > > of R8.
> > > > >
> > > > > Single channel displays do exist I believe, but being single-channel,
> > > > > expansion on the other channels is likely meaningless. Hm, but for the
> > > > > KMS color pipeline, it would be meaningful, like with a CTM.
> > > > > Interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know. Maybe Geert does?      
> > > > 
> > > > I did some digging, and was a bit surprised that it was you who told
> > > > me to use R8 instead of Y8?
> > > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20220202111954.6ee9a10c@eldfell    
> > > 
> > > Hi Geert,
> > > 
> > > indeed I did. I never thought of the question of expansion to R,G,B
> > > before. Maybe that expansion is what spells R8 and Y8 apart?
> > > 
> > > I do think that expansion needs to be specified, so that the KMS color
> > > pipeline computations are defined. There is a big difference between
> > > multiplying these with an arbitrary 3x3 matrix (e.g. CTM):
> > > 
> > > - (R, 0, 0)
> > > - (R, R, R)
> > > - (c1 * Y, c2 * Y, c3 * Y)    
> > 
> > I'd be very surprised by an YUV to RGB conversion matrix where the first
> > column would contain different values. What we need to take into account
> > though is quantization (full vs. limited range).  

Quantization range is indeed good to note. R8 would be always full
range, but Y8 would follow COLOR_RANGE property.

> That makes Y8 produce (Y, Y, Y), and we have our answer: R8 should be
> (R, 0, 0), so we have both variants.
> 
> Can we specify Y, R, G and B be nominal values in the range 0.0 - 1.0
> in the KMS color processing?

I think this 0.0 - 1.0 nominal range definition for the abstract KMS
color processing is necessary.

It also means that limited range Y8 data, when containing values 0-15
or 240-255, would produce negative and greater than 1.0 values,
respectively. They might get immediately clamped to 0.0 - 1.0 with the
first color operation they face, though, but the concept seems
important and carrying over to the new color pipelines UAPI which might
choose not to clamp.


Thanks,
pq

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