Message-ID: <CAP045ArAVtR6_Y-WWcqpB54Z+fwNYSWSyrTZKjctocwA0sK5eg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 15:15:00 -0700
From: Kyle Huey <me@...ehuey.com>
To: Peter Xu <peterx@...hat.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, 
	linux-mm@...ck.org, criu@...ts.linux.dev, 
	"Robert O'Callahan" <robert@...llahan.org>
Subject: Re: Suppress pte soft-dirty bit with UFFDIO_COPY?

On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 1:05 PM Peter Xu <peterx@...hat.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Kyle,
>
> On Mon, May 05, 2025 at 09:37:01AM -0700, Kyle Huey wrote:
> > tl;dr I'd like to add UFFDIO_COPY_MODE_DONTSOFTDIRTY that does not add
> > the _PAGE_SOFT_DIRTY bit to the relevant pte flags. Any
> > thoughts/objections?
> >
> > The kernel has a "soft-dirty" bit on ptes which tracks if they've been
> > written to since the last time /proc/pid/clear_refs was used to clear
> > the soft-dirty bit. CRIU uses this to track which pages have been
> > modified since a previous checkpoint and reduce the size of the
> > checkpoints taken. I would like to use this in my debugger[0] to track
> > which pages a program function dirties when that function is invoked
> > from the debugger.
> >
> > However, the runtime environment for this function is rather unusual.
> > In my debugger, the process being debugged doesn't actually exist
> > while it's being debugged. Instead, we have a database of all program
> > state (including registers and memory values) from when the process
> > was executed. It's in some sense a giant core dump that spans multiple
> > points in time. To execute a program function from the debugger we
> > rematerialize the program state at the desired point in time from our
> > database.
> >
> > For performance reasons, we fill in the memory lazily[1] via
> > userfaultfd. This makes it difficult to use the soft-dirty bit to
> > track the writes the function triggers, because UFFDIO_COPY (and
> > friends) mark every page they touch as soft-dirty. Because we have the
> > canonical source of truth for the pages we materialize via UFFDIO_COPY
> > we're only interested in what happens after the userfaultfd operation.
> >
> > Clearing the soft-dirty bit is complicated by two things:
> > 1. There's no way to clear the soft-dirty bit on a single pte, so
> > instead we have to clear the soft-dirty bits for the entire process.
> > That requires us to process all the soft-dirty bits on every other pte
> > immediately to avoid data loss.
> > 2. We need to clear the soft-dirty bits after the userfaultfd
> > operation, but in order to avoid racing with the task that triggered
> > the page fault we have to do a non-waking copy, then clear the bits,
> > and then separately wake up the task.
> >
> > To work around all of this, we currently have a 4 step process:
> > 1. Read /proc/pid/pagemap and note all ptes that are soft-dirty.
> > 2. Do the UFFDIO_COPY with UFFDIO_COPY_MODE_DONTWAKE.
> > 3. Write to /proc/pid/clear_refs to clear soft-dirty bits across the process.
> > 4. Do a UFFDIO_WAKE.
> >
> > The overhead of all of this (particularly step 1) is a millisecond or
> > two *per page* that we lazily materialize, and while that's not
> > crippling for our purposes, it is rather undesirable. What I would
> > like to have instead is a UFFDIO_COPY mode that leaves the soft-dirty
> > bit unchanged, i.e. a UFFDIO_COPY_MODE_DONTSOFTDIRTY. Since we clear
> > all the soft-dirty bits once after setting up all the mmaps in the
> > process the relevant ptes would then "just do the right thing" from
> > our perspective.
> >
> > But I do want to get some feedback on this before I spend time writing
> > any code. Is there a reason not to do this? Or an alternate way to
> > achieve the same goal?
>
> Have you looked at the wr-protect mode, and UFFDIO_COPY_MODE_WP for _COPY?
>
> If sync fault is a perf concern for frequent writes, just to mention at
> least latest Linux also supports async tracking (UFFD_FEATURE_WP_ASYNC),
> which is almost exactly soft dirty bits to me, though it solves a few
> issues it has on e.g. false positives over vma merging and swapping, or
> like you said missing of finer granule reset mechanisms.
>
> Maybe you also want to have a look at the pagemap ioctl introduced some
> time ago ("Pagemap Scan IOCTL", which, IIRC was trying to use uffd-wp in
> soft-dirty-like way):
>
> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/mm/pagemap.rst


Thanks. This is all very helpful and I think I can construct what I
need out of these building blocks.

- Kyle

> > If this is generally sensible, then a couple questions:
> > 1. Do I need a UFFD_FEATURE flag for this, or is it enough for a
> > program to be able to detect the existence of a
> > UFFDIO_COPY_MODE_DONTSOFTDIRTY by whether the ioctl accepts the flag
> > or returns EINVAL? I would tend to think the latter.
>
> The latter requires all the setups needed, and an useless ioctl to probe.
> Not a huge issue, but since userfaultfd is extensible, a feature flag might
> be better as long as a new feature is well defined.
>
> > 2. Should I add this mode for the other UFFDIO variants (ZEROPAGE,
> > MOVE, etc) at the same time even if I don't have any use for them?
>
> Probably not.  I don't see a need to implement something just to make the
> API look good..  If any chunk of code in the Linux kernel has no plan to be
> used, we should probably not adding them since the start..
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Peter Xu
>

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