[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Message-ID: <1499278a-bc89-4c63-a6d3-54b3a7f87626@linux.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2025 12:33:28 +0200
From: Jacek Lawrynowicz <jacek.lawrynowicz@...ux.intel.com>
To: Lizhi Hou <lizhi.hou@....com>, ogabbay@...nel.org,
quic_jhugo@...cinc.com, dri-devel@...ts.freedesktop.org
Cc: linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, max.zhen@....com, sonal.santan@....com,
mario.limonciello@....com
Subject: Re: [PATCH V1] accel/amdxdna: Support user space allocated buffer
Hi,
This looks very interesting. It's a clever way of adding userptr on top of existing gem code.
On 7/7/2025 9:38 PM, Lizhi Hou wrote:
> Enhance DRM_IOCTL_AMDXDNA_CREATE_BO to accept user space allocated
> buffer pointer. The buffer pages will be pinned in memory. Unless
> the CAP_IPC_LOCK is enabled for the application process, the total
> pinned memory can not beyond rlimit_memlock.
>
> Signed-off-by: Lizhi Hou <lizhi.hou@....com>
> ---
> drivers/accel/amdxdna/Makefile | 1 +
> drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_gem.c | 139 +++++++++++++---
> drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.c | 232 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.h | 19 +++
> include/uapi/drm/amdxdna_accel.h | 25 +++
> 5 files changed, 391 insertions(+), 25 deletions(-)
> create mode 100644 drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.c
> create mode 100644 drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.h
>
> diff --git a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/Makefile b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/Makefile
> index 0e9adf6890a0..6797dac65efa 100644
> --- a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/Makefile
> +++ b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/Makefile
> @@ -15,6 +15,7 @@ amdxdna-y := \
> amdxdna_mailbox_helper.o \
> amdxdna_pci_drv.o \
> amdxdna_sysfs.o \
> + amdxdna_ubuf.o \
> npu1_regs.o \
> npu2_regs.o \
> npu4_regs.o \
> diff --git a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_gem.c b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_gem.c
> index 0f85a0105178..d407a36eb412 100644
> --- a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_gem.c
> +++ b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_gem.c
> @@ -18,6 +18,7 @@
> #include "amdxdna_ctx.h"
> #include "amdxdna_gem.h"
> #include "amdxdna_pci_drv.h"
> +#include "amdxdna_ubuf.h"
>
> #define XDNA_MAX_CMD_BO_SIZE SZ_32K
>
> @@ -296,7 +297,7 @@ static int amdxdna_insert_pages(struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo,
>
> vma->vm_private_data = NULL;
> vma->vm_ops = NULL;
> - ret = dma_buf_mmap(to_gobj(abo)->dma_buf, vma, 0);
> + ret = dma_buf_mmap(abo->dma_buf, vma, 0);
> if (ret) {
> XDNA_ERR(xdna, "Failed to mmap dma buf %d", ret);
> return ret;
> @@ -391,10 +392,47 @@ static const struct dma_buf_ops amdxdna_dmabuf_ops = {
> .vunmap = drm_gem_dmabuf_vunmap,
> };
>
> +static int amdxdna_gem_obj_vmap(struct drm_gem_object *obj, struct iosys_map *map)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo = to_xdna_obj(obj);
> +
> + iosys_map_clear(map);
> +
> + dma_resv_assert_held(obj->resv);
> +
> + if (is_import_bo(abo))
> + dma_buf_vmap(abo->dma_buf, map);
> + else
> + drm_gem_shmem_object_vmap(obj, map);
> +
> + if (!map->vaddr)
> + return -ENOMEM;
> +
> + return 0;
> +}
> +
> +static void amdxdna_gem_obj_vunmap(struct drm_gem_object *obj, struct iosys_map *map)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo = to_xdna_obj(obj);
> +
> + dma_resv_assert_held(obj->resv);
> +
> + if (is_import_bo(abo))
> + dma_buf_vunmap(abo->dma_buf, map);
> + else
> + drm_gem_shmem_object_vunmap(obj, map);
> +}
> +
> static struct dma_buf *amdxdna_gem_prime_export(struct drm_gem_object *gobj, int flags)
> {
> + struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo = to_xdna_obj(gobj);
> DEFINE_DMA_BUF_EXPORT_INFO(exp_info);
>
> + if (abo->dma_buf) {
> + get_dma_buf(abo->dma_buf);
> + return abo->dma_buf;
> + }
> +
> exp_info.ops = &amdxdna_dmabuf_ops;
> exp_info.size = gobj->size;
> exp_info.flags = flags;
> @@ -451,8 +489,8 @@ static const struct drm_gem_object_funcs amdxdna_gem_shmem_funcs = {
> .pin = drm_gem_shmem_object_pin,
> .unpin = drm_gem_shmem_object_unpin,
> .get_sg_table = drm_gem_shmem_object_get_sg_table,
> - .vmap = drm_gem_shmem_object_vmap,
> - .vunmap = drm_gem_shmem_object_vunmap,
> + .vmap = amdxdna_gem_obj_vmap,
> + .vunmap = amdxdna_gem_obj_vunmap,
> .mmap = amdxdna_gem_obj_mmap,
> .vm_ops = &drm_gem_shmem_vm_ops,
> .export = amdxdna_gem_prime_export,
> @@ -494,6 +532,68 @@ amdxdna_gem_create_object_cb(struct drm_device *dev, size_t size)
> return to_gobj(abo);
> }
>
> +static struct amdxdna_gem_obj *
> +amdxdna_gem_create_shmem_object(struct drm_device *dev, size_t size)
> +{
> + struct drm_gem_shmem_object *shmem = drm_gem_shmem_create(dev, size);
> +
> + if (IS_ERR(shmem))
> + return ERR_CAST(shmem);
> +
> + shmem->map_wc = false;
> + return to_xdna_obj(&shmem->base);
> +}
> +
> +static struct amdxdna_gem_obj *
> +amdxdna_gem_create_ubuf_object(struct drm_device *dev, struct amdxdna_drm_create_bo *args)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_dev *xdna = to_xdna_dev(dev);
> + enum amdxdna_ubuf_flag flags = 0;
> + struct amdxdna_drm_va_tbl va_tbl;
> + struct drm_gem_object *gobj;
> + struct dma_buf *dma_buf;
> +
> + if (copy_from_user(&va_tbl, u64_to_user_ptr(args->vaddr), sizeof(va_tbl))) {
> + XDNA_DBG(xdna, "Access va table failed");
> + return ERR_PTR(-EINVAL);
> + }
> +
> + if (va_tbl.num_entries) {
> + if (args->type == AMDXDNA_BO_CMD)
> + flags |= AMDXDNA_UBUF_FLAG_MAP_DMA;
Does it make sense to create a ubuf without AMDXDNA_UBUF_FLAG_MAP_DMA?
Seems like without dma_map, the buffer cannot be used by the device.
> +
> + dma_buf = amdxdna_get_ubuf(dev, flags, va_tbl.num_entries,
> + u64_to_user_ptr(args->vaddr + sizeof(va_tbl)));
> + } else {
> + dma_buf = dma_buf_get(va_tbl.dmabuf_fd);
> + }
> +
> + if (IS_ERR(dma_buf))
> + return ERR_CAST(dma_buf);
> +
> + gobj = amdxdna_gem_prime_import(dev, dma_buf);
> + if (IS_ERR(gobj)) {
> + dma_buf_put(dma_buf);
> + return ERR_CAST(gobj);
> + }
> +
> + dma_buf_put(dma_buf);
> +
> + return to_xdna_obj(gobj);
> +}
> +
> +static struct amdxdna_gem_obj *
> +amdxdna_gem_create_object(struct drm_device *dev,
> + struct amdxdna_drm_create_bo *args)
> +{
> + size_t aligned_sz = PAGE_ALIGN(args->size);
> +
> + if (args->vaddr)
> + return amdxdna_gem_create_ubuf_object(dev, args);
> +
> + return amdxdna_gem_create_shmem_object(dev, aligned_sz);
> +}
> +
> struct drm_gem_object *
> amdxdna_gem_prime_import(struct drm_device *dev, struct dma_buf *dma_buf)
> {
> @@ -545,16 +645,12 @@ amdxdna_drm_alloc_shmem(struct drm_device *dev,
> struct drm_file *filp)
> {
> struct amdxdna_client *client = filp->driver_priv;
> - struct drm_gem_shmem_object *shmem;
> struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo;
>
> - shmem = drm_gem_shmem_create(dev, args->size);
> - if (IS_ERR(shmem))
> - return ERR_CAST(shmem);
> -
> - shmem->map_wc = false;
> + abo = amdxdna_gem_create_object(dev, args);
> + if (IS_ERR(abo))
> + return ERR_CAST(abo);
>
> - abo = to_xdna_obj(&shmem->base);
> abo->client = client;
> abo->type = AMDXDNA_BO_SHMEM;
>
> @@ -569,7 +665,6 @@ amdxdna_drm_create_dev_heap(struct drm_device *dev,
> struct amdxdna_client *client = filp->driver_priv;
> struct iosys_map map = IOSYS_MAP_INIT_VADDR(NULL);
> struct amdxdna_dev *xdna = to_xdna_dev(dev);
> - struct drm_gem_shmem_object *shmem;
> struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo;
> int ret;
>
> @@ -586,14 +681,12 @@ amdxdna_drm_create_dev_heap(struct drm_device *dev,
> goto mm_unlock;
> }
>
> - shmem = drm_gem_shmem_create(dev, args->size);
> - if (IS_ERR(shmem)) {
> - ret = PTR_ERR(shmem);
> + abo = amdxdna_gem_create_object(dev, args);
> + if (IS_ERR(abo)) {
> + ret = PTR_ERR(abo);
> goto mm_unlock;
> }
>
> - shmem->map_wc = false;
> - abo = to_xdna_obj(&shmem->base);
> abo->type = AMDXDNA_BO_DEV_HEAP;
> abo->client = client;
> abo->mem.dev_addr = client->xdna->dev_info->dev_mem_base;
> @@ -657,7 +750,6 @@ amdxdna_drm_create_cmd_bo(struct drm_device *dev,
> {
> struct iosys_map map = IOSYS_MAP_INIT_VADDR(NULL);
> struct amdxdna_dev *xdna = to_xdna_dev(dev);
> - struct drm_gem_shmem_object *shmem;
> struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo;
> int ret;
>
> @@ -671,12 +763,9 @@ amdxdna_drm_create_cmd_bo(struct drm_device *dev,
> return ERR_PTR(-EINVAL);
> }
>
> - shmem = drm_gem_shmem_create(dev, args->size);
> - if (IS_ERR(shmem))
> - return ERR_CAST(shmem);
> -
> - shmem->map_wc = false;
> - abo = to_xdna_obj(&shmem->base);
> + abo = amdxdna_gem_create_object(dev, args);
> + if (IS_ERR(abo))
> + return ERR_CAST(abo);
>
> abo->type = AMDXDNA_BO_CMD;
> abo->client = filp->driver_priv;
> @@ -691,7 +780,7 @@ amdxdna_drm_create_cmd_bo(struct drm_device *dev,
> return abo;
>
> release_obj:
> - drm_gem_shmem_free(shmem);
> + drm_gem_object_put(to_gobj(abo));
> return ERR_PTR(ret);
> }
>
> @@ -702,7 +791,7 @@ int amdxdna_drm_create_bo_ioctl(struct drm_device *dev, void *data, struct drm_f
> struct amdxdna_gem_obj *abo;
> int ret;
>
> - if (args->flags || args->vaddr || !args->size)
> + if (args->flags)
> return -EINVAL;
>
> XDNA_DBG(xdna, "BO arg type %d vaddr 0x%llx size 0x%llx flags 0x%llx",
> diff --git a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.c b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.c
> new file mode 100644
> index 000000000000..c19167ecd963
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.c
> @@ -0,0 +1,232 @@
> +// SPDX-License-Identifier: GPL-2.0
> +/*
> + * Copyright (C) 2025, Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
> + */
> +
> +#include <drm/amdxdna_accel.h>
> +#include <drm/drm_device.h>
> +#include <drm/drm_print.h>
> +#include <linux/dma-buf.h>
> +#include <linux/pagemap.h>
> +#include <linux/vmalloc.h>
> +
> +#include "amdxdna_pci_drv.h"
> +#include "amdxdna_ubuf.h"
> +
> +struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv {
> + struct page **pages;
> + u64 nr_pages;
> + enum amdxdna_ubuf_flag flags;
> + struct mm_struct *mm;
> +};
> +
> +static struct sg_table *amdxdna_ubuf_map(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
> + enum dma_data_direction direction)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf = attach->dmabuf->priv;
> + struct sg_table *sg;
> + int ret;
> +
> + sg = kzalloc(sizeof(*sg), GFP_KERNEL);
> + if (!sg)
> + return ERR_PTR(-ENOMEM);
> +
> + ret = sg_alloc_table_from_pages(sg, ubuf->pages, ubuf->nr_pages, 0,
> + ubuf->nr_pages << PAGE_SHIFT, GFP_KERNEL);
> + if (ret)
> + return ERR_PTR(ret);
> +
> + if (ubuf->flags & AMDXDNA_UBUF_FLAG_MAP_DMA) {
> + ret = dma_map_sgtable(attach->dev, sg, direction, 0);
> + if (ret)
> + return ERR_PTR(ret);
> + }
> +
> + return sg;
> +}
> +
> +static void amdxdna_ubuf_unmap(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach,
> + struct sg_table *sg,
> + enum dma_data_direction direction)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf = attach->dmabuf->priv;
> +
> + if (ubuf->flags & AMDXDNA_UBUF_FLAG_MAP_DMA)
> + dma_unmap_sgtable(attach->dev, sg, direction, 0);
> +
> + sg_free_table(sg);
> + kfree(sg);
> +}
> +
> +static void amdxdna_ubuf_release(struct dma_buf *dbuf)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf = dbuf->priv;
> +
> + unpin_user_pages(ubuf->pages, ubuf->nr_pages);
> + kvfree(ubuf->pages);
> + atomic64_sub(ubuf->nr_pages, &ubuf->mm->pinned_vm);
> + mmdrop(ubuf->mm);
> + kfree(ubuf);
> +}
> +
> +static vm_fault_t amdxdna_ubuf_vm_fault(struct vm_fault *vmf)
> +{
> + struct vm_area_struct *vma = vmf->vma;
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf;
> + unsigned long pfn;
> + pgoff_t pgoff;
> +
> + ubuf = vma->vm_private_data;
> + pgoff = (vmf->address - vma->vm_start) >> PAGE_SHIFT;
> +
> + pfn = page_to_pfn(ubuf->pages[pgoff]);
> + return vmf_insert_pfn(vma, vmf->address, pfn);
> +}
> +
> +static const struct vm_operations_struct amdxdna_ubuf_vm_ops = {
> + .fault = amdxdna_ubuf_vm_fault,
> +};
> +
> +static int amdxdna_ubuf_mmap(struct dma_buf *dbuf, struct vm_area_struct *vma)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf = dbuf->priv;
> +
> + vma->vm_ops = &amdxdna_ubuf_vm_ops;
> + vma->vm_private_data = ubuf;
> + vm_flags_set(vma, VM_PFNMAP | VM_DONTEXPAND | VM_DONTDUMP);
> +
> + return 0;
> +}
> +
> +static int amdxdna_ubuf_vmap(struct dma_buf *dbuf, struct iosys_map *map)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf = dbuf->priv;
> + void *kva;
> +
> + kva = vmap(ubuf->pages, ubuf->nr_pages, VM_MAP, PAGE_KERNEL);
> + if (!kva)
> + return -EINVAL;
> +
> + iosys_map_set_vaddr(map, kva);
> + return 0;
> +}
> +
> +static void amdxdna_ubuf_vunmap(struct dma_buf *dbuf, struct iosys_map *map)
> +{
> + vunmap(map->vaddr);
> +}
> +
> +static const struct dma_buf_ops amdxdna_ubuf_dmabuf_ops = {
> + .map_dma_buf = amdxdna_ubuf_map,
> + .unmap_dma_buf = amdxdna_ubuf_unmap,
> + .release = amdxdna_ubuf_release,
> + .mmap = amdxdna_ubuf_mmap,
Why mmap user memory? You will end up with two user space virtual addresses.
> + .vmap = amdxdna_ubuf_vmap,
> + .vunmap = amdxdna_ubuf_vunmap,
> +};
> +
> +struct dma_buf *amdxdna_get_ubuf(struct drm_device *dev,
> + enum amdxdna_ubuf_flag flags,
> + u32 num_entries, void __user *va_entries)
> +{
> + struct amdxdna_dev *xdna = to_xdna_dev(dev);
> + unsigned long lock_limit, new_pinned;
> + struct amdxdna_drm_va_entry *va_ent;
> + struct amdxdna_ubuf_priv *ubuf;
> + u32 npages, start = 0;
> + struct dma_buf *dbuf;
> + int i, ret;
> + DEFINE_DMA_BUF_EXPORT_INFO(exp_info);
> +
> + if (!can_do_mlock())
> + return ERR_PTR(-EPERM);
> +
> + ubuf = kzalloc(sizeof(*ubuf), GFP_KERNEL);
> + if (!ubuf)
> + return ERR_PTR(-ENOMEM);
> +
> + ubuf->flags = flags;
> + ubuf->mm = current->mm;
> + mmgrab(ubuf->mm);
> +
> + va_ent = kvcalloc(num_entries, sizeof(*va_ent), GFP_KERNEL);
> + if (!va_ent) {
> + ret = -ENOMEM;
> + goto free_ubuf;
> + }
> +
> + if (copy_from_user(va_ent, va_entries, sizeof(*va_ent) * num_entries)) {
> + XDNA_DBG(xdna, "Access va entries failed");
> + ret = -EINVAL;
> + goto free_ent;
> + }
> +
> + for (i = 0, exp_info.size = 0; i < num_entries; i++) {
> + if ((va_ent[i].vaddr & (PAGE_SIZE - 1)) ||
> + (va_ent[i].len & (PAGE_SIZE - 1))) {
I would use IS_ALIGNED(x, PAGE_SIZE) for readability.
> + XDNA_ERR(xdna, "Invalid address or len %llx, %llx",
> + va_ent[i].vaddr, va_ent[i].len);
> + ret = -EINVAL;
> + goto free_ent;
> + }
> +
> + exp_info.size += va_ent[i].len;
> + }
> +
> + ubuf->nr_pages = exp_info.size >> PAGE_SHIFT;
> + lock_limit = rlimit(RLIMIT_MEMLOCK) >> PAGE_SHIFT;
> + new_pinned = atomic64_add_return(ubuf->nr_pages, &ubuf->mm->pinned_vm);
> + if (new_pinned > lock_limit && !capable(CAP_IPC_LOCK)) {
> + XDNA_DBG(xdna, "New pin %ld, limit %ld, cap %d",
> + new_pinned, lock_limit, capable(CAP_IPC_LOCK));
> + ret = -ENOMEM;
> + goto sub_pin_cnt;
> + }
> +
> + ubuf->pages = kvmalloc_array(ubuf->nr_pages, sizeof(*ubuf->pages), GFP_KERNEL);
> + if (!ubuf->pages) {
> + ret = -ENOMEM;
> + goto sub_pin_cnt;
> + }
> +
> + for (i = 0; i < num_entries; i++) {
> + npages = va_ent[i].len >> PAGE_SHIFT;
> +
> + ret = pin_user_pages_fast(va_ent[i].vaddr, npages,
> + FOLL_WRITE | FOLL_LONGTERM,
> + &ubuf->pages[start]);
> + if (ret < 0 || ret != npages) {
> + ret = -ENOMEM;
> + XDNA_ERR(xdna, "Failed to pin pages ret %d", ret);
> + goto destroy_pages;
> + }
> +
> + start += ret;
> + }
> +
> + exp_info.ops = &amdxdna_ubuf_dmabuf_ops;
> + exp_info.priv = ubuf;
> + exp_info.flags = O_RDWR;
I would consider adding O_CLOEXEC.
> +
> + dbuf = dma_buf_export(&exp_info);
> + if (IS_ERR(dbuf)) {
> + ret = PTR_ERR(dbuf);
> + goto destroy_pages;
> + }
> + kvfree(va_ent);
> +
> + return dbuf;
> +
> +destroy_pages:
> + if (start)
> + unpin_user_pages(ubuf->pages, start);
> + kvfree(ubuf->pages);
> +sub_pin_cnt:
> + atomic64_sub(ubuf->nr_pages, &ubuf->mm->pinned_vm);
> +free_ent:
> + kvfree(va_ent);
> +free_ubuf:
> + mmdrop(ubuf->mm);
> + kfree(ubuf);
> + return ERR_PTR(ret);
> +}
> diff --git a/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.h b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.h
> new file mode 100644
> index 000000000000..e5cb3bdb3ec9
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/drivers/accel/amdxdna/amdxdna_ubuf.h
> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
> +/* SPDX-License-Identifier: GPL-2.0 */
> +/*
> + * Copyright (C) 2025, Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
> + */
> +#ifndef _AMDXDNA_UBUF_H_
> +#define _AMDXDNA_UBUF_H_
> +
> +#include <drm/drm_device.h>
> +#include <linux/dma-buf.h>
> +
> +enum amdxdna_ubuf_flag {
> + AMDXDNA_UBUF_FLAG_MAP_DMA = 1,
> +};
> +
> +struct dma_buf *amdxdna_get_ubuf(struct drm_device *dev,
> + enum amdxdna_ubuf_flag flags,
> + u32 num_entries, void __user *va_entries);
> +
> +#endif /* _AMDXDNA_UBUF_H_ */
> diff --git a/include/uapi/drm/amdxdna_accel.h b/include/uapi/drm/amdxdna_accel.h
> index a706ead39082..ce523e9ccc52 100644
> --- a/include/uapi/drm/amdxdna_accel.h
> +++ b/include/uapi/drm/amdxdna_accel.h
> @@ -153,6 +153,31 @@ enum amdxdna_bo_type {
> AMDXDNA_BO_CMD,
> };
>
> +/**
> + * struct amdxdna_drm_va_entry
> + * @vaddr: Virtual address.
> + * @len: Size of entry.
> + */
> +struct amdxdna_drm_va_entry {
> + __u64 vaddr;
> + __u64 len;
> +};
> +
> +/**
> + * struct amdxdna_drm_va_tbl
> + * @dmabuf_fd: The fd of dmabuf.
> + * @num_entries: Number of va entries.
> + * @va_entries: Array of va entries.
> + *
> + * The input can be either a dmabuf fd or a virtual address entry table.
> + * When dmabuf_fd is used, num_entries must be zero.
> + */
> +struct amdxdna_drm_va_tbl {
> + __s32 dmabuf_fd;
Isn't this already implemented by drm_prime_fd_to_handle_ioctl?
> + __u32 num_entries;
> + struct amdxdna_drm_va_entry va_entries[];
> +};
> +
> /**
> * struct amdxdna_drm_create_bo - Create a buffer object.
> * @flags: Buffer flags. MBZ.
Regards,
Jacek
Powered by blists - more mailing lists