Message-ID: <CAMgjq7Aosd20rpFa8thPaGQ9dL-qLeq6Ki7S0H0VirQy5rh=Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 02:09:31 +0800
From: Kairui Song <ryncsn@...il.com>
To: Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com>
Cc: linux-mm@...ck.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, 
	"Liam R. Howlett" <Liam.Howlett@...cle.com>, Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@...cle.com>, 
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@...e.cz>, Pedro Falcato <pfalcato@...e.de>, Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>, 
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>, David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>, Chris Li <chrisl@...nel.org>, 
	Barry Song <baohua@...nel.org>, Baoquan He <bhe@...hat.com>, Nhat Pham <nphamcs@...il.com>, 
	Kemeng Shi <shikemeng@...weicloud.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 3/3] mm/mincore: avoid touching the PTL

On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 1:45 AM Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 7:28 PM Kairui Song <ryncsn@...il.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 12:06 AM Jann Horn <jannh@...gle.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 5:27 PM Kairui Song <ryncsn@...il.com> wrote:
> > > > mincore only interested in the existence of a page, which is a
> > > > changing state by nature, locking and making it stable is not needed.
> > > > And now neither mincore_page or mincore_swap requires PTL, this PTL
> > > > locking can be dropped.
> > >
> > > This means you can race such that you end up looking at an unrelated
> > > page of another process, right?
> >
> > I was thinking If the PTE is gone, it will make mincore go check the
> > page cache, but even if we hold the PTL here, the next mincore call
> > (if called soon enough) could check the page cache using the same
> > address. And it never checks any actual page if the PTE is not none.
> >
> > Perhaps you mean that it's now doing the page / swap cache lookup
> > without holding PTL so if the PTE changed, then the lookup could be
> > using an invalidated index, and may find an unrelated page.
>
> Yes, that's what I meant.
>
> > A changing PTE also means the mincore return value is changing, and if
> > called earlier or later by a little bit, the result of that address
> > could be opposite, and mincore only checks if the page existed,
> > it's hard to say the returned value is a false positive / negative?
> >
> > Or could this introduce a new security issue?
>
> I don't have specific security concerns here; but this is a change
> that trades accuracy and simplicity for performance.
>
> > > And your patch intentionally allows that to happen in order to make mincore() faster?
> >
> > When doing a clean up (patch 1) I noticed and didn't understand why we
> > need a PTL here. It will no longer block others and go faster as we
> > remove one lock, I can drop this one if we are not comfortable with
> > it.
>
> If you had a specific performance concern here, I think we could
> consider changing this, but in my view it would sort of be breaking
> the locking rules (by using a swap index that is not guaranteed to be
> kept alive) and would need an explanatory comment explaining the
> tradeoff.

Thanks for the explanation.

>From the swap side, get_swap_device also ensures the offset is still
in the valid lookup range so the worst thing is a very rare inaccurate
value.
PTE change will mean the page is being swapped in/out or zapped, so if
the mincore is called by like a jitter earlier / later, the result
changes. So I thought it hard to define the accuracy in such a case
considering the timing.

>
> Since you only wrote the patch because you thought the lock was
> unnecessary, I'd prefer it if you drop this patch.

Understandable, I can update and keep patch 1 and 2, which improves
the performance and clean it up without causing any potential accuracy
issues.

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