linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH] mm: shmem: fix the strategy for the tmpfs 'huge=' options

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Message-ID: <3705f034-808a-4afe-5dde-4b4e9815a8d0@google.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 23:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>
To: Baolin Wang <baolin.wang@...ux.alibaba.com>
cc: akpm@...ux-foundation.org, hughd@...gle.com, willy@...radead.org, 
    david@...hat.com, lorenzo.stoakes@...cle.com, ziy@...dia.com, 
    Liam.Howlett@...cle.com, npache@...hat.com, ryan.roberts@....com, 
    dev.jain@....com, baohua@...nel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, 
    linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] mm: shmem: fix the strategy for the tmpfs 'huge='
 options

On Tue, 12 Aug 2025, Baolin Wang wrote:
> On 2025/7/30 16:14, Baolin Wang wrote:
> > After commit acd7ccb284b8 ("mm: shmem: add large folio support for tmpfs"),
> > we have extended tmpfs to allow any sized large folios, rather than just
> > PMD-sized large folios.
> > 
> > The strategy discussed previously was:
> > 
> > "
> > Considering that tmpfs already has the 'huge=' option to control the
> > PMD-sized large folios allocation, we can extend the 'huge=' option to
> > allow any sized large folios.  The semantics of the 'huge=' mount option
> > are:
> > 
> >      huge=never: no any sized large folios
> >      huge=always: any sized large folios
> >      huge=within_size: like 'always' but respect the i_size
> >      huge=advise: like 'always' if requested with madvise()
> > 
> > Note: for tmpfs mmap() faults, due to the lack of a write size hint, still
> > allocate the PMD-sized huge folios if huge=always/within_size/advise is
> > set.
> > 
> > Moreover, the 'deny' and 'force' testing options controlled by
> > '/sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage/shmem_enabled', still retain the same
> > semantics.  The 'deny' can disable any sized large folios for tmpfs, while
> > the 'force' can enable PMD sized large folios for tmpfs.
> > "
> > 
> > This means that when tmpfs is mounted with 'huge=always' or
> > 'huge=within_size',
> > tmpfs will allow getting a highest order hint based on the size of write()
> > and
> > fallocate() paths. It will then try each allowable large order, rather than
> > continually attempting to allocate PMD-sized large folios as before.
> > 
> > However, this might break some user scenarios for those who want to use
> > PMD-sized large folios, such as the i915 driver which did not supply a write
> > size hint when allocating shmem [1].
> > 
> > Moreover, Hugh also complained that this will cause a regression in
> > userspace
> > with 'huge=always' or 'huge=within_size'.
> > 
> > So, let's revisit the strategy for tmpfs large page allocation. A simple fix
> > would be to always try PMD-sized large folios first, and if that fails, fall
> > back to smaller large folios. However, this approach differs from the
> > strategy
> > for large folio allocation used by other file systems. Is this acceptable?
> > 
> > [1]
> > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/0d734549d5ed073c80b11601da3abdd5223e1889.1753689802.git.baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com/
> > Fixes: acd7ccb284b8 ("mm: shmem: add large folio support for tmpfs")
> > Signed-off-by: Baolin Wang <baolin.wang@...ux.alibaba.com>
> > ---
> > Note: this is just an RFC patch. I would like to hear others' opinions or
> > see if there is a better way to address Hugh's concern.

Sorry, I am still evaluating this RFC patch.

Certainly I observe it taking us in the right direction, giving PMD-sized
pages on tmpfs huge=always, as 6.13 and earlier releases did - thank you.

But the explosion of combinations which mTHP and FS large folios bring,
the amount that needs checking, is close to defeating me; and I've had
to spend a lot of the time re-educating myself on the background -
not looking to see whether this particular patch is right or not.
Still working on it.

> > ---
> 
> Hi Hugh,
> 
> If we use this approach to fix the PMD large folio regression, should we also
> change tmpfs mmap() to allow allocating any sized large folios, but always try
> to allocate PMD-sized large folios first? What do you think? Thanks.

Probably: I would like the mmap allocations to follow the same rules.

But finding it a bit odd how the current implementation limits tmpfs
large folios to when huge=notnever (is that a fair statement?), whereas
other filesystems are now being freely given large folios - using
different GFP flags from what MM uses (closest to defrag=always I think),
and with no limitation - whereas MM folks are off devising ever newer
ways to restrict access to huge pages.

And (conversely) I am unhappy with the way write and fallocate (and split
and collapse? in flight I think) are following the FS approach of allowing
every fractal, when mTHP/shmem_enabled is (or can be) more limiting.  I
think it less surprising (and more efficient when fragmented) for shmem
FS operations to be restricted to the same subset as "shared anon".

Hugh