Message-ID: <CAM_iQpWO71vSV_0qXiUYeKYZMYF0xWNz8MrUVRkqKwDEtQvKqA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2025 15:41:18 -0700
From: Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>
To: Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, pasha.tatashin@...een.com, 
	Cong Wang <cwang@...tikernel.io>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, 
	Baoquan He <bhe@...hat.com>, Alexander Graf <graf@...zon.com>, Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>, 
	Changyuan Lyu <changyuanl@...gle.com>, kexec@...ts.infradead.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, 
	multikernel@...ts.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [RFC Patch 0/7] kernel: Introduce multikernel architecture support

On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 7:28 AM Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2025 at 02:40:18PM -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 19, 2025 at 2:27 PM Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2025 at 03:25:59PM -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> > > > This patch series introduces multikernel architecture support, enabling
> > > > multiple independent kernel instances to coexist and communicate on a
> > > > single physical machine. Each kernel instance can run on dedicated CPU
> > > > cores while sharing the underlying hardware resources.
> > > >
> > > > The multikernel architecture provides several key benefits:
> > > > - Improved fault isolation between different workloads
> > > > - Enhanced security through kernel-level separation
> > >
> > > What level of isolation does this patch series provide? What stops
> > > kernel A from accessing kernel B's memory pages, sending interrupts to
> > > its CPUs, etc?
> >
> > It is kernel-enforced isolation, therefore, the trust model here is still
> > based on kernel. Hence, a malicious kernel would be able to disrupt,
> > as you described. With memory encryption and IPI filtering, I think
> > that is solvable.
>
> I think solving this is key to the architecture, at least if fault
> isolation and security are goals. A cooperative architecture where
> nothing prevents kernels from interfering with each other simply doesn't
> offer fault isolation or security.

Kernel and kernel modules can be signed today, kexec also supports
kernel signing via kexec_file_load(). It migrates at least untrusted
kernels, although kernels can be still exploited via 0-day.

>
> On CPU architectures that offer additional privilege modes it may be
> possible to run a supervisor on every CPU to restrict access to
> resources in the spawned kernel. Kernels would need to be modified to
> call into the supervisor instead of accessing certain resources
> directly.
>
> IOMMU and interrupt remapping control would need to be performed by the
> supervisor to prevent spawned kernels from affecting each other.

That's right, security vs performance. A lot of times we have to balance
between these two. This is why Kata Container today runs a container
inside a VM.

This largely depends on what users could compromise, there is no single
right answer here.

For example, in a fully-controlled private cloud, security exploits are
probably not even a concern. Sacrificing performance for a non-concern
is not reasonable.

>
> This seems to be the price of fault isolation and security. It ends up
> looking similar to a hypervisor, but maybe it wouldn't need to use
> virtualization extensions, depending on the capabilities of the CPU
> architecture.

Two more points:

1) Security lockdown. Security lockdown transforms multikernel from
"0-day means total compromise" to "0-day means single workload
compromise with rapid recovery." This is still a significant improvement
over containers where a single kernel 0-day compromises everything
simultaneously.

2) Rapid kernel updates: A more practical way to eliminate 0-day
exploits is to update kernel more frequently, today the major blocker
is the downtime required by kernel reboot, which is what multikernel
aims to resolve.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Cong Wang

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