Message-ID: <87ikg0nt2s.fsf@trenco.lwn.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 11:38:19 -0600
From: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>
To: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@...mhuis.info>
Cc: workflows@...r.kernel.org, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
 regressions@...ts.linux.dev, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 04/30] docs: reporting-issues: add proper appendix

Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@...mhuis.info> writes:

> Turn the "Why some bugs remain unfixed and some report are ignored"
> section into a proper appendix while improving it slightly.
>
> Signed-off-by: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@...mhuis.info>
> ---
>  .../admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst          | 102 +++++++++---------
>  1 file changed, 54 insertions(+), 48 deletions(-)

Some comments below, but I have to ask: do we really need this section
at all?  Getting people to read long documents is hard, and this adds a
fair amount of length to, essentially, say that the kernel is an
open-source program like any other and its developers are not required
to address your problems...?

> diff --git a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> index 9676ba85e1b73c..745e698cb6be8b 100644
> --- a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> @@ -1693,60 +1693,66 @@ for the subsystem where the issue seems to have its roots; CC the mailing list
>  for the subsystem as well as the stable mailing list (stable@...r.kernel.org).
>  
>  
> -Why some issues won't get any reaction or remain unfixed after being reported
> -=============================================================================
> +Appendix: additional background information
> +===========================================
>  
> -When reporting a problem to the Linux developers, be aware only 'issues of high
> -priority' (regressions, security issues, severe problems) are definitely going
> -to get resolved. The maintainers or if all else fails Linus Torvalds himself
> -will make sure of that. They and the other kernel developers will fix a lot of
> -other issues as well. But be aware that sometimes they can't or won't help; and
> -sometimes there isn't even anyone to send a report to.
> +.. _unfixedbugs_repiapdx:

This label is seemingly unused?

> -This is best explained with kernel developers that contribute to the Linux
> -kernel in their spare time. Quite a few of the drivers in the kernel were
> -written by such programmers, often because they simply wanted to make their
> -hardware usable on their favorite operating system.
> +Why some bugs remain unfixed and some report are ignored

report*s*

> +--------------------------------------------------------
> +
> +When reporting a problem to the Linux developers, be aware that they are only
> +obliged to fix regressions, security issues, and severe problems. Developers,
> +maintainers, or, if all else fails, Linus Torvalds himself will make sure of
> +that. They will fix a lot of other issues as well, but sometimes they can't or
> +won't help -- and sometimes there isn't even anyone to send a report to.
> +
> +This situation is best explained using kernel developers that contribute to the

"using" is weird; "highlighting" or some such?

> +Linux kernel in their spare time. Quite a few of the drivers in the kernel were
> +written by such programmers; often they simply wanted to make the
> +hardware they owned usable on their favorite operating system.

This really kind of reinforces the old "developed in their parents'
basement" stuff we used to hear; again, do we really need this?

>  These programmers most of the time will happily fix problems other people
> -report. But nobody can force them to do, as they are contributing voluntarily.
> -
> -Then there are situations where such developers really want to fix an issue,
> -but can't: sometimes they lack hardware programming documentation to do so.
> -This often happens when the publicly available docs are superficial or the
> -driver was written with the help of reverse engineering.
> -
> -Sooner or later spare time developers will also stop caring for the driver.
> -Maybe their test hardware broke, got replaced by something more fancy, or is so
> -old that it's something you don't find much outside of computer museums
> -anymore. Sometimes developer stops caring for their code and Linux at all, as
> -something different in their life became way more important. In some cases
> -nobody is willing to take over the job as maintainer – and nobody can be forced
> -to, as contributing to the Linux kernel is done on a voluntary basis. Abandoned
> -drivers nevertheless remain in the kernel: they are still useful for people and
> -removing would be a regression.
> +report. But nobody can force them to do so, as they are contributing
> +voluntarily.
> +
> +There are also situations where such developers would like to fix issues,
> +but can't: They might lack programming documentation to do so or hardware to
> +test. The former can happen when the publicly available docs are superficial or
> +when a driver was written with the help of reverse engineering.
> +
> +Sooner or later, spare-time developers usually stop caring for the driver.
> +Maybe their test hardware broke, was replaced by something more fancy, or
> +became so old that it is something you don't find much outside of computer
> +museums anymore. Other times developers also stop caring when
> +something different in life becomes more important to them. Then sometimes
> +nobody is willing to take over the job as maintainer -- and nobody else can be
> +forced to, as contributing is voluntary. The code nevertheless often stays
> +around, as it is useful for people; removing it would also cause a regression,
> +which is not allowed in Linux.
>  
>  The situation is not that different with developers that are paid for their
> -work on the Linux kernel. Those contribute most changes these days. But their
> -employers sooner or later also stop caring for their code or make its
> -programmer focus on other things. Hardware vendors for example earn their money
> -mainly by selling new hardware; quite a few of them hence are not investing
> -much time and energy in maintaining a Linux kernel driver for something they
> -stopped selling years ago. Enterprise Linux distributors often care for a
> -longer time period, but in new versions often leave support for old and rare
> -hardware aside to limit the scope. Often spare time contributors take over once
> -a company orphans some code, but as mentioned above: sooner or later they will
> -leave the code behind, too.
> -
> -Priorities are another reason why some issues are not fixed, as maintainers
> -quite often are forced to set those, as time to work on Linux is limited.
> -That's true for spare time or the time employers grant their developers to
> -spend on maintenance work on the upstream kernel. Sometimes maintainers also
> -get overwhelmed with reports, even if a driver is working nearly perfectly. To
> -not get completely stuck, the programmer thus might have no other choice than
> -to prioritize issue reports and reject some of them.
> -
> -But don't worry too much about all of this, a lot of drivers have active
> +work on the upstream Linux kernel. Those contribute the most changes these days.
> +But their employers set the priorities. And those sooner or later stop caring
> +for some code or make their
> +employees focus on other things. Hardware vendors, for example, earn their money
> +mainly by selling new hardware -- they thus often are not much interested in
> +investing much time and energy in maintaining a Linux kernel driver for a chip
> +they stopped selling years ago. Enterprise Linux distributors often care for a
> +longer time period, but in new versions might set support for old and rare
> +hardware aside to limit the scope, too. Often spare-time contributors take over
> +once employed developers orphan some code, but as mentioned earlier: Sooner or
> +later they will usually leave the code behind, too.
> +
> +Priorities are another reason why some issues are not fixed, as developers
> +quite often are forced to set those: The spare-time of volunteers or the time
> +employers allot for upstream Linux kernel work is often limited. Sometimes
> +developers are also flooded with good and bad reports, even if a driver is
> +working well. To
> +not get completely stuck, the programmers might have no other choice than
> +to prioritize bug reports and ignore some.
> +
> +But do not worry too much about all of this, a lot of drivers have active
>  maintainers who are quite interested in fixing as many issues as possible.

Otherwise OK, I guess, but my overall question stands: do we really need
this text?

Thanks,

jon

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