Message-ID: <CACePvbXstKtQXE+0i-KRcq5LwrCr92a_FKy2KBmqaiwZEkFxng@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2025 23:22:45 +0400
From: Chris Li <chrisl@...nel.org>
To: Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, Kairui Song <kasong@...cent.com>, 
	Kemeng Shi <shikemeng@...weicloud.com>, Nhat Pham <nphamcs@...il.com>, 
	Baoquan He <bhe@...hat.com>, Barry Song <baohua@...nel.org>, Yosry Ahmed <yosry.ahmed@...ux.dev>, 
	Chengming Zhou <chengming.zhou@...ux.dev>, linux-mm@...ck.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, 
	pratmal@...gle.com, sweettea@...gle.com, gthelen@...gle.com, 
	weixugc@...gle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] mm: ghost swapfile support for zswap

On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 1:31 AM Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 11:27:04PM +0400, Chris Li wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 11:33 PM Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org> wrote:
> > > > > Do you have a link to that proposal?
> > > >
> > > > My 2024 LSF swap pony talk already has a mechanism to redirect page
> > > > cache swap entries to different physical locations.
> > > > That can also work for redirecting swap entries in different swapfiles.
> > > >
> > > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/CANeU7QnPsTouKxdK2QO8Opho6dh1qMGTox2e5kFOV8jKoEJwig@mail.gmail.com/
> > >
> > > I looked through your slides and the LWN article, but it's very hard
> > > for me to find answers to my questions in there.
> >
> > Naturally, the slide is only intended to cover what is in the current
> > swap table may be phase VII.
> > But it does have the physical location pointer consideration.
> >
> > > In your proposal, let's say you have a swp_entry_t in the page
> > > table. What does it describe, and what are the data structures to get
> > > from this key to user data in the following scenarios:
> >
> > Please keep in mind that I don't have every detail design laid out. I
> > follow the first principles that redirect a swap entry page should
> > only take an additional 4 byte per swap entry. VS blow up the swap
> > entry size by something like 24 bytes?
>
> Nhat can lay this out in more detail, but there isn't much new stuff

Please make sure Nhat do. It shouldn't be complicated question.

> in the virtual swap descriptor. It's mostly just a consolidation of
> state we currently track elsewhere - swap count, swapcache pointer,
> cgroup ownership etc.

All those will fold into swap table values at later phases. So in this
regard, swap table is not satisfying the status quotes, it is more
aggressive in conserving memory. If I recall correctly, VS uses atomic
for the counters? It will blow up the 1 byte counter to 4 bytes.

> The actual indirection is just a word for the backend type,offset.

Sure.

>
> That indirection is the tradeoff for swapped pages. In turn you're
> getting back all that other stuff for swap slots that *aren't*
> currently used. This is a win for the vast majority of users.

Swap table does those as well, in the later phases.

>
> Since you mentioned first principles - the dynamically sized swap
> space is also much more suitable for compressed pools, which are the
> dominant form of swap setups nowadays. Again a win for the majority.

Sure, the swap table does that, especially after the swap cgroup and
swap count fold into the swap table.

> And the worst-case is reasonable. I don't see the giant gulf you seem
> to see there. I don't know where it's supposed to be coming from.

Let Nhat conform the per swap entry overhead and let's compare it with
the swap table fully final form.
Another easy way is just run some benchmark to see how much overhead
the VS introduces.

That being said, I think I have answered enough technical questions of
my approach, to let you re-consider my proposal. You should be able to
realize by now my approach is more optimal compared to VS. Do you
agree or not? We are just arguing how big the gap that is.

Chris

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