| lists.openwall.net | lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC | |
|
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
| ||
|
Message-ID: <CAOQ4uxg26jaY3vrUnWoB=NxHTkn2a8zSbtbQKd2w3Vp25wUxAw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2025 14:16:22 +0100
From: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@...il.com>
To: Namjae Jeon <linkinjeon@...nel.org>
Cc: viro@...iv.linux.org.uk, brauner@...nel.org, hch@...radead.org, hch@....de,
tytso@....edu, willy@...radead.org, jack@...e.cz, djwong@...nel.org,
josef@...icpanda.com, sandeen@...deen.net, rgoldwyn@...e.com,
xiang@...nel.org, dsterba@...e.com, pali@...nel.org, ebiggers@...nel.org,
neil@...wn.name, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
iamjoonsoo.kim@....com, cheol.lee@....com, jay.sim@....com, gunho.lee@....com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/11] ntfsplus: ntfs filesystem remake
On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 1:18 PM Namjae Jeon <linkinjeon@...nel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 8:10 PM Amir Goldstein <amir73il@...il.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 6:00 AM Namjae Jeon <linkinjeon@...nel.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Introduction
> > > ============
> > >
> > > The NTFS filesystem[1] still remains the default filesystem for Windows
> > > and The well-maintained NTFS driver in the Linux kernel enhances
> > > interoperability with Windows devices, making it easier for Linux users
> > > to work with NTFS-formatted drives. Currently, ntfs support in Linux was
> > > the long-neglected NTFS Classic (read-only), which has been removed from
> > > the Linux kernel, leaving the poorly maintained ntfs3. ntfs3 still has
> > > many problems and is poorly maintained, so users and distributions are
> > > still using the old legacy ntfs-3g.
> >
> Hi Amir,
> > May I suggest that you add a patch to your series to add a deprecation
> > message to ntfs3?
> >
> > See for example eb103a51640ee ("reiserfs: Deprecate reiserfs")
> Okay, I'll add it in the next version, referring to this reiserfs patch.
> >
There is no need to refer to this patch, there is nothing special about it.
It's just an example for you of past deprecation procedures.
Unlike resierfs, the deprecation warning and help text for ntfs3 should refer
users to the better in-tree alternative.
Thanks,
Amir.
> > >
> > >
> > > What is ntfsplus?
> > > =================
> > >
> > > The remade ntfs called ntfsplus is an implementation that supports write
> > > and the essential requirements(iomap, no buffer-head, utilities, xfstests
> > > test result) based on read-only classic NTFS.
> > > The old read-only ntfs code is much cleaner, with extensive comments,
> > > offers readability that makes understanding NTFS easier. This is why
> > > ntfsplus was developed on old read-only NTFS base.
> > > The target is to provide current trends(iomap, no buffer head, folio),
> > > enhanced performance, stable maintenance, utility support including fsck.
> > >
> >
> > You are bringing back the old ntfs driver code from the dead, preserving the
> > code and Copyrights and everything to bring it up to speed with modern vfs
> > API and to add super nice features. Right?
> Yes.
> >
> > Apart from its history, the new refurbished ntfs driver is also fully backward
> > compact to the old read-only driver. Right?
> Yes.
> >
> > Why is the rebranding to ntfsplus useful then?
> >
> > I can understand that you want a new name for a new ntfsprogs-plus project
> > which is a fork of ntfs-3g, but I don't think that the new name for the kernel
> > driver is useful or welcome.
> Right, I wanted to rebrand ntfsprogs-plus and ntfsplus into a paired
> set of names. Also, ntfs3 was already used as an alias for ntfs, so I
> couldn't touch ntfs3 driver without consensus from the fs maintainers.
> >
> > Do you have any objections to leaving its original ntfs name?
> I have no objection to using ntfsplus as an alias for ntfs if we add a
> deprecation message to ntfs3.
> >
> > You can also do:
> > MODULE_ALIAS_FS("ntfs");
> > MODULE_ALIAS_FS("ntfsplus");
> I will add this in the next version with ntfs3 deprecation patch.
> >
> > If that is useful for ntfsprogs-plus somehow.
> That is very useful and thanks for your review!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Amir.
> >
> > >
> > > Key Features
> > > ============
> > >
> > > - Write support:
> > > Implement write support on classic read-only NTFS. Additionally,
> > > integrate delayed allocation to enhance write performance through
> > > multi-cluster allocation and minimized fragmentation of cluster bitmap.
> > >
> > > - Switch to using iomap:
> > > Use iomap for buffered IO writes, reads, direct IO, file extent mapping,
> > > readpages, writepages operations.
> > >
> > > - Stop using the buffer head:
> > > The use of buffer head in old ntfs and switched to use folio instead.
> > > As a result, CONFIG_BUFFER_HEAD option enable is removed in Kconfig also.
> > >
> > > - Public utilities include fsck[2]:
> > > While ntfs-3g includes ntfsprogs as a component, it notably lacks
> > > the fsck implementation. So we have launched a new ntfs utilitiies
> > > project called ntfsprogs-plus by forking from ntfs-3g after removing
> > > unnecessary ntfs fuse implementation. fsck.ntfs can be used for ntfs
> > > testing with xfstests as well as for recovering corrupted NTFS device.
> > >
> > > - Performance Enhancements:
> > >
> > > - ntfsplus vs. ntfs3:
> > >
> > > * Performance was benchmarked using iozone with various chunk size.
> > > - In single-thread(1T) write tests, ntfsplus show approximately
> > > 3~5% better performance.
> > > - In multi-thread(4T) write tests, ntfsplus show approximately
> > > 35~110% better performance.
> > > - Read throughput is identical for both ntfs implementations.
> > >
> > > 1GB file size:4096 size:16384 size:65536
> > > MB/sec ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3
> > > ─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> > > read 399 | 399 426 | 424 429 | 430
> > > ─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> > > write(1T) 291 | 276 325 | 305 333 | 317
> > > write(4T) 105 | 50 113 | 78 114 | 99.6
> > >
> > >
> > > * File list browsing performance. (about 12~14% faster)
> > >
> > > files:100000 files:200000 files:400000
> > > Sec ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3
> > > ─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> > > ls -lR 7.07 | 8.10 14.03 | 16.35 28.27 | 32.86
> > >
> > >
> > > * mount time.
> > >
> > > parti_size:1TB parti_size:2TB parti_size:4TB
> > > Sec ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3 ntfsplus | ntfs3
> > > ─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
> > > mount 0.38 | 2.03 0.39 | 2.25 0.70 | 4.51
> > >
> > > The following are the reasons why ntfsplus performance is higher
> > > compared to ntfs3:
> > > - Use iomap aops.
> > > - Delayed allocation support.
> > > - Optimize zero out for newly allocated clusters.
> > > - Optimize runlist merge overhead with small chunck size.
> > > - pre-load mft(inode) blocks and index(dentry) blocks to improve
> > > readdir + stat performance.
> > > - Load lcn bitmap on background.
> > >
> > > - Stability improvement:
> > > a. Pass more xfstests tests:
> > > ntfsplus passed 287 tests, significantly higher than ntfs3's 218.
> > > ntfsplus implement fallocate, idmapped mount and permission, etc,
> > > resulting in a significantly high number of xfstests passing compared
> > > to ntfs3.
> > > b. Bonnie++ issue[3]:
> > > The Bonnie++ benchmark fails on ntfs3 with a "Directory not empty"
> > > error during file deletion. ntfs3 currently iterates directory
> > > entries by reading index blocks one by one. When entries are deleted
> > > concurrently, index block merging or entry relocation can cause
> > > readdir() to skip some entries, leaving files undeleted in
> > > workloads(bonnie++) that mix unlink and directory scans.
> > > ntfsplus implement leaf chain traversal in readdir to avoid entry skip
> > > on deletion.
> > >
> > > - Journaling support:
> > > ntfs3 does not provide full journaling support. It only implement journal
> > > replay[4], which in our testing did not function correctly. My next task
> > > after upstreaming will be to add full journal support to ntfsplus.
> > >
> > >
> > > The feature comparison summary
> > > ==============================
> > >
> > > Feature ntfsplus ntfs3
> > > =================================== ======== ===========
> > > Write support Yes Yes
> > > iomap support Yes No
> > > No buffer head Yes No
> > > Public utilities(mkfs, fsck, etc.) Yes No
> > > xfstests passed 287 218
> > > Idmapped mount Yes No
> > > Delayed allocation Yes No
> > > Bonnie++ Pass Fail
> > > Journaling Planned Inoperative
> > > =================================== ======== ===========
> > >
> > >
> > > References
> > > ==========
> > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS
> > > [2] https://github.com/ntfsprogs-plus/ntfsprogs-plus
> > > [3] https://lore.kernel.org/ntfs3/CAOZgwEd7NDkGEpdF6UQTcbYuupDavaHBoj4WwTy3Qe4Bqm6V0g@mail.gmail.com/
> > > [4] https://marc.info/?l=linux-fsdevel&m=161738417018673&q=mbox
> > >
> > >
> > > Available in the Git repository at:
> > > ===================================
> > > git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/linkinjeon/ntfs.git ntfs-next
> > >
> > >
> > > v2:
> > > - Add ntfs3-compatible mount options(sys_immutable, nohidden,
> > > hide_dot_files, nocase, acl, windows_names, disable_sparse, discard).
> > > - Add iocharset mount option.
> > > - Add ntfs3-compatible dos attribute and ntfs attribute load/store
> > > in setxattr/getattr().
> > > - Add support for FS_IOC_{GET,SET}FSLABEL ioctl.
> > > - Add support for FITRIM ioctl.
> > > - Fix the warnings(duplicate symbol, __divdi3, etc) from kernel test robot.
> > > - Prefix pr_xxx() with ntfsplus.
> > > - Add support for $MFT File extension.
> > > - Add Documentation/filesystems/ntfsplus.rst.
> > > - Mark experimental.
> > > - Remove BUG traps warnings from checkpatch.pl.
> > >
> > > Namjae Jeon (11):
> > > ntfsplus: in-memory, on-disk structures and headers
> > > ntfsplus: add super block operations
> > > ntfsplus: add inode operations
> > > ntfsplus: add directory operations
> > > ntfsplus: add file operations
> > > ntfsplus: add iomap and address space operations
> > > ntfsplus: add attrib operatrions
> > > ntfsplus: add runlist handling and cluster allocator
> > > ntfsplus: add reparse and ea operations
> > > ntfsplus: add misc operations
> > > ntfsplus: add Kconfig and Makefile
> > >
> > > Documentation/filesystems/index.rst | 1 +
> > > Documentation/filesystems/ntfsplus.rst | 199 +
> > > fs/Kconfig | 1 +
> > > fs/Makefile | 1 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/Kconfig | 45 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/Makefile | 18 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/aops.c | 617 +++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/aops.h | 92 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/attrib.c | 5377 ++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/attrib.h | 159 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/attrlist.c | 285 ++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/attrlist.h | 21 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/bitmap.c | 290 ++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/bitmap.h | 93 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/collate.c | 178 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/collate.h | 37 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/compress.c | 1564 +++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/dir.c | 1230 ++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/dir.h | 33 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/ea.c | 931 ++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/ea.h | 25 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/file.c | 1142 +++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/index.c | 2112 ++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/index.h | 127 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/inode.c | 3729 ++++++++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/inode.h | 353 ++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/layout.h | 2288 ++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/lcnalloc.c | 1012 +++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/lcnalloc.h | 127 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/logfile.c | 770 ++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/logfile.h | 316 ++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/mft.c | 2698 ++++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/mft.h | 92 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/misc.c | 213 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/misc.h | 218 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/mst.c | 195 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/namei.c | 1677 ++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/ntfs.h | 180 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/ntfs_iomap.c | 700 +++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/ntfs_iomap.h | 22 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/reparse.c | 550 +++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/reparse.h | 15 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/runlist.c | 1983 +++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/runlist.h | 91 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/super.c | 2865 +++++++++++++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/unistr.c | 473 +++
> > > fs/ntfsplus/upcase.c | 73 +
> > > fs/ntfsplus/volume.h | 254 ++
> > > include/uapi/linux/ntfs.h | 23 +
> > > 49 files changed, 35495 insertions(+)
> > > create mode 100644 Documentation/filesystems/ntfsplus.rst
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/Kconfig
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/Makefile
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/aops.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/aops.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/attrib.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/attrib.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/attrlist.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/attrlist.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/bitmap.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/bitmap.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/collate.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/collate.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/compress.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/dir.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/dir.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/ea.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/ea.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/file.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/index.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/index.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/inode.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/inode.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/layout.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/lcnalloc.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/lcnalloc.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/logfile.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/logfile.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/mft.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/mft.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/misc.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/misc.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/mst.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/namei.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/ntfs.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/ntfs_iomap.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/ntfs_iomap.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/reparse.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/reparse.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/runlist.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/runlist.h
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/super.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/unistr.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/upcase.c
> > > create mode 100644 fs/ntfsplus/volume.h
> > > create mode 100644 include/uapi/linux/ntfs.h
> > >
> > > --
> > > 2.25.1
> > >
Powered by blists - more mailing lists