Message-ID: <ef2d04e5-4687-4d2f-83a7-6cf9a7990ade@quicinc.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 22:31:57 +0530
From: Pavan Kondeti <pavan.kondeti@....qualcomm.com>
To: Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>
Cc: Pavan Kondeti <pavan.kondeti@....qualcomm.com>,
        Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>,
        Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Alternative to arm64.nopauth cmdline for disabling Pointer
 Authentication

On Thu, Dec 04, 2025 at 01:01:40PM +0000, Marc Zyngier wrote:
> [dropping Ricardo, as his address bounces]
> 
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 10:36:12 +0000,
> Pavan Kondeti <pavan.kondeti@....qualcomm.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Marc,
> > 
> > On Thu, Dec 04, 2025 at 09:15:29AM +0000, Marc Zyngier wrote:
> > > On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 04:07:15 +0000,
> > > Pavan Kondeti <pavan.kondeti@....qualcomm.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hi
> > > > 
> > > > The pointer authentication feature (PAuth) is only supported on
> > > > 0-3 CPUs but it is not supported on 4-7 CPUS on QCS8300.
> > > 
> > > On what grounds? Hardware incompatibility? I seriously doubt it, since
> > > nobody glues pre-8.3 CPUs to anything more modern. Or, as I expect it,
> > > a firmware implemented with little understanding of what is required?
> > 
> > I don't know the answer to this question. I will talk to folks who may
> > know answer to this question and get back.
> > 
> > Can you please elaborate on the firmware part you are talking here? I
> > see that Linux runs at EL2 and AA64ISAR1 register values on CPU#0 (A78)
> > indicates that PAuth is supported but not for CPU#4 (A55). I am told, there
> > are no other controls outside EL2 (trap) to manipulate this feature. So,
> > I am assuming that this is indeed reflecting the HW.
> 
> Neither A78 nor A55 have PAuth. They are both firmly ARMv8.2 CPUs, and
> predate this functionality. So I guess that there are only two possible
> outcomes:
> 
> - either the FW is indeed not at fault, but that you have a *third*
>   type of CPU that is at least 8.3 in the mix
> 
> - or that you misidentified the CPUs that are on your system, they
>   have PAuth, and the firmware is borked
> 
> Which one is it?
> 

As Mark pointed out and MIDR indicates, it is A78C. sorry for the
confusion.

> > 
> > > 
> > > > The ARM64 cpufeature discovery code expects late CPUs to have
> > > > this feature if boot CPU feature has it since PAuth is enabled
> > > > early. When a conflict like this is detected, the late CPUs are
> > > > not allowed to boot. It is expected that system will continue
> > > > to be functional with CPUs with Pauth feature supported and enabled.
> > > > This is not a desired behavior in production.
> > > 
> > > What is even less desirable is to produce this sort of contraption.
> > > 
> > > > We started seeing this problem when Linux is booted in EL2. When Linux
> > > > is running under Gunyah (Type-1 hypervisor), Pointer Authentication
> > > > feature is hidden from EL1 via HCR_EL2.TID3. 
> > > > 
> > > > arm64.nopauth can be passed on kernel cmdline to disable the feature
> > > > in kernel so that all all CPUs can boot on QCS8300. I am told 
> > > > maintaining a custom kernel commandline per SoC in a Generic OS 
> > > > distribution is not recommended and asked to discuss the problem with
> > > > the comunity [1]
> > > 
> > > Well, you get to own the problem you have created for yourself. You
> > > build hardware/firmware that cannot run generic SW, and yet you want
> > > generic SW to run seamlessly on it. Spot the issue?
> > > 
> > > > This patch [2] from Catalin adds a devicetree property under memory {}
> > > > to disable MTE. I believe this work predates the id-reg override
> > > > mechanism. However, this made me think if workarounds like this can be
> > > > detected via devicetree, for example a property under cpu { } node.
> > > 
> > > Not only it predates it, but it also doesn't work in general. For a
> > > start, it is DT specific. How are you going to make that work for
> > > ACPI? I know you don't care, but I do.
> > 
> > Point taken. I understand that this does not fall under errata but is
> > there a possiblity to introduce an Errata targeting CPU#0 MIDR and
> > disabling the Pointer authentication? I understand that if there is
> > another Qualcomm SoC that exists with all CPUs supporting pointer
> > authentication with same MIDR, we may be disabling the feature but this
> > is something I can check internally.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > Given that what we put in `chosen { bootargs="" }` kernel under
> > > > respective SoC devicetree can be overridden by bootloader, should we
> > > > have a **sticky** cmdline to specify critical workarounds like this?
> > > > This would be more generic than introducing any new parameters.
> > > 
> > > You already have a way to have a sticky command-line, by building it
> > > into the kernel. Yes, I understand that this isn't what you want, but:
> > > 
> > > (1) a user should be allowed to pass the kernel command-line *they*
> > >     want, not what someone has decided for them
> > 
> > Agreed. This is what made me to ask the question. Should kernel have a
> > sticky command line which may have critical workarounds like this?
> 
> Absolutely *not*. You are not in charge of defining what is good for
> the user. If the user themselves want that, they have plenty of ways
> to achieve that particular goal already. Put it in the bootargs
> string, in the kernel build, in a grub config file, as a u-boot
> hack... There is an infinite number of choices already, and we don't
> need an extra one to hide how ugly their HW is.
> 
> > > (2) the generic mechanism exists, doesn't rely on additional firmware
> > >     specifications, and is used for a whole lot of other QC platforms
> > >     suffering from the same issue of broken firmware.  What are you
> > >     going to do for these?
> > 
> > The generic mechanism, you mean bootloader passing the kernel cmdline
> > with `arm64.nopauth`? or something else.
> 
> Exactly that. This is the mechanism by which we instruct the kernel
> not to use a particular feature if it can avoid it. It is easy to add,
> doesn't depend on new esoteric firmware interfaces, and is a constant
> reminder that you are dealing with stuff that isn't fit for purpose.
> 

Got it. 

Thanks,
Pavan

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