Message-ID: <aURihbmjsKi8m7MO@tardis-2.local>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 05:22:29 +0900
From: Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@...icios.com>
Cc: Joel Fernandes <joel@...lfernandes.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>,	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
 Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
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	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
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 maged.michael@...il.com,	Mateusz Guzik <mjguzik@...il.com>,
	Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@...weicloud.com>,	rcu@...r.kernel.org,
 linux-mm@...ck.org, lkmm@...ts.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v4 3/4] hazptr: Implement Hazard Pointers

On Thu, Dec 18, 2025 at 12:35:18PM -0500, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> On 2025-12-18 03:36, Boqun Feng wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 17, 2025 at 08:45:30PM -0500, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> [...]
> > > +static inline
> > > +void *hazptr_acquire(struct hazptr_ctx *ctx, void * const * addr_p)
> > > +{
> > > +	struct hazptr_slot *slot = NULL;
> > > +	void *addr, *addr2;
> > > +
> > > +	/*
> > > +	 * Load @addr_p to know which address should be protected.
> > > +	 */
> > > +	addr = READ_ONCE(*addr_p);
> > > +	for (;;) {
> > > +		if (!addr)
> > > +			return NULL;
> > > +		guard(preempt)();
> > > +		if (likely(!hazptr_slot_is_backup(ctx, slot))) {
> > > +			slot = hazptr_get_free_percpu_slot();
> > 
> > I need to continue share my concerns about this "allocating slot while
> > protecting" pattern. Here realistically, we will go over a few of the
> > per-CPU hazard pointer slots *every time* instead of directly using a
> > pre-allocated hazard pointer slot.
> 
> No, that's not the expected fast-path with CONFIG_PREEMPT_HAZPTR=y
> (introduced in patch 4/4).
> 

I see, I was missing the patch #4, will take a look and reply
accordingly.

> With PREEMPT_HAZPTR, using more than one hazard pointer per CPU will
> only happen if there are nested hazard pointer users, which can happen
> due to:
> 
> - Holding a hazard pointer across function calls, where another hazard
>   pointer is used.
> - Using hazard pointers from interrupt handlers (note: my current code
>   only does preempt disable, not irq disable, this is something I'd need
>   to change if we wish to acquire/release hazard pointers from interrupt
>   handlers). But even that should be a rare event.
> 
> So the fast-path has an initial state where there are no hazard pointers
> in use on the CPU, which means hazptr_acquire() finds its empty slot at
> index 0.
> 
> > Could you utilize this[1] to see a
> > comparison of the reader-side performance against RCU/SRCU?
> 
> Good point ! Let's see.
> 
> On a AMD 2x EPYC 9654 96-Core Processor with 192 cores,
> hyperthreading disabled,
> CONFIG_PREEMPT=y,
> CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=y,
> CONFIG_PREEMPT_HAZPTR=y.
> 
> scale_type                 ns
> -----------------------
> hazptr-smp-mb             13.1   <- this implementation
> hazptr-barrier            11.5   <- replace smp_mb() on acquire with barrier(), requires IPIs on synchronize.
> hazptr-smp-mb-hlist       12.7   <- replace per-task hp context and per-cpu overflow lists by hlist.
> rcu                       17.0
> srcu                      20.0
> srcu-fast                  1.5
> rcu-tasks                  0.0
> rcu-trace                  1.7
> refcnt                  1148.0
> rwlock                  1190.0
> rwsem                   4199.3
> lock                   41070.6
> lock-irq               46176.3
> acqrel                     1.1
> 
> So only srcu-fast, rcu-tasks, rcu-trace and a plain acqrel
> appear to beat hazptr read-side performance.
> 

Could you also see the reader-side performance impact when the percpu
hazard pointer slots are used up? I.e. the worst case.

> [...]
> 
> > > +/*
> > > + * Perform piecewise iteration on overflow list waiting until "addr" is
> > > + * not present. Raw spinlock is released and taken between each list
> > > + * item and busy loop iteration. The overflow list generation is checked
> > > + * each time the lock is taken to validate that the list has not changed
> > > + * before resuming iteration or busy wait. If the generation has
> > > + * changed, retry the entire list traversal.
> > > + */
> > > +static
> > > +void hazptr_synchronize_overflow_list(struct overflow_list *overflow_list, void *addr)
> > > +{
> > > +	struct hazptr_backup_slot *backup_slot;
> > > +	uint64_t snapshot_gen;
> > > +
> > > +	raw_spin_lock(&overflow_list->lock);
> > > +retry:
> > > +	snapshot_gen = overflow_list->gen;
> > > +	list_for_each_entry(backup_slot, &overflow_list->head, node) {
> > > +		/* Busy-wait if node is found. */
> > > +		while (smp_load_acquire(&backup_slot->slot.addr) == addr) { /* Load B */
> > > +			raw_spin_unlock(&overflow_list->lock);
> > > +			cpu_relax();
> > 
> > I think we should prioritize the scan thread solution [2] instead of
> > busy waiting hazrd pointer updaters, because when we have multiple
> > hazard pointer usages we would want to consolidate the scans from
> > updater side.
> 
> I agree that batching scans with a worker thread is a logical next step.
> 
> > If so, the whole ->gen can be avoided.
> 
> How would it allow removing the generation trick without causing long
> raw spinlock latencies ?
> 

Because we won't need to busy-wait for the readers to go away, we can
check whether they are still there in the next scan.

so:

	list_for_each_entry(backup_slot, &overflow_list->head, node) {
		/* Busy-wait if node is found. */
		if (smp_load_acquire(&backup_slot->slot.addr) == addr) { /* Load B */
			<mark addr as unable to free and move on>
		
> > 
> > However this ->gen idea does seem ot resolve another issue for me, I'm
> > trying to make shazptr critical section preemptive by using a per-task
> > backup slot (if you recall, this is your idea from the hallway
> > discussions we had during LPC 2024),
> 
> I honestly did not remember. It's been a whole year! ;-)
> 
> > and currently I could not make it
> > work because the following sequeue:
> > 
> > 1. CPU 0 already has one pointer protected.
> > 
> > 2. CPU 1 begins the updater scan, and it scans the list of preempted
> >     hazard pointer readers, no reader.
> > 
> > 3. CPU 0 does a context switch, it stores the current hazard pointer
> >     value to the current task's ->hazard_slot (let's say the task is task
> >     A), and add it to the list of preempted hazard pointer readers.
> > 
> > 4. CPU 0 clears its percpu hazptr_slots for the next task (B).
> > 
> > 5. CPU 1 continues the updater scan, and it scans the percpu slot of
> >     CPU 0, and finds no reader.
> > 
> > in this situation, updater will miss a reader. But if we add a
> > generation snapshotting at step 2 and generation increment at step 3, I
> > think it'll work.
> > 
> > IMO, if we make this work, it's better than the current backup slot
> > mechanism IMO, because we only need to acquire the lock if context
> > switch happens.
> 
> With PREEMPT_HAZPTR we also only need to acquire the per-cpu overflow
> list raw spinlock on context switch (preemption or blocking). The only

Indeed, pre-allocating the slot on the stack to save the percpu slot
when context switch seems easier and quite smart ;-) Let me take a look.

Regards,
Boqun

> other case requiring it is hazptr nested usage (more than 8 active
> hazptr) on a thread context + nested irqs.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mathieu
> 
> -- 
> Mathieu Desnoyers
> EfficiOS Inc.
> https://www.efficios.com

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