linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v2 0/8] Introduce a huge-page pre-zeroing mechanism

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Message-Id: <20260114113635.97621-1-lizhe.67@bytedance.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 19:36:35 +0800
From: "Li Zhe" <lizhe.67@...edance.com>
To: <david@...nel.org>
Cc: <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, <ankur.a.arora@...cle.com>, 
	<fvdl@...gle.com>, <joao.m.martins@...cle.com>, 
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, <linux-mm@...ck.org>, 
	<lizhe.67@...edance.com>, <mhocko@...e.com>, <mjguzik@...il.com>, 
	<muchun.song@...ux.dev>, <osalvador@...e.de>, <raghavendra.kt@....com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/8] Introduce a huge-page pre-zeroing mechanism

On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 11:41:48 +0100, david@...nel.org wrote:
 
> On 1/13/26 13:41, Li Zhe wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 11:15:29 +0100, david@...nel.org wrote:
> > 
> >> On 1/13/26 07:37, Li Zhe wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 20:52:12 +0100, david@...nel.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> As for concern (4), I believe it is orthogonal to this patchset, and
> >>>>> the cover letter already contains a performance comparison that
> >>>>> demonstrates the additional benefit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I did see some comments in [1] about QEMU supporting user-mode
> >>>>>> parallel zero-page operations; I'm just not sure what the current
> >>>>>> state of that support looks like, or what the corresponding benchmark
> >>>>>> numbers are.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As noted above, QEMU already employs a parallel page-touch mechanism,
> >>>>> yet the elapsed time remains noticeable. I am not deeply familiar with
> >>>>> QEMU; please correct me if I am mistaken.
> >>>>
> >>>> I implemented some part of the parallel preallocation support in QEMU.
> >>>>
> >>>> With QEMU, you can specify the number of threads and even specify the
> >>>> NUMA-placement of these threads. So you can pretty much fine-tune that
> >>>> for an environment.
> >>>>
> >>>> You still pre-zero all hugetlb pages at VM startup time, just in
> >>>> parallel though. So you pay some price at APP startup time.
> >>>
> >>> Hi David,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the comprehensive explanation.
> >>>
> >>> You are absolutely correct: QEMU's parallel preallocation is performed
> >>> only during VM start-up. We submitted this patch series mainly
> >>> because we observed that, even with the existing parallel mechanism,
> >>> launching large-size VMs still incurs prohibitive delays. (Bringing up
> >>> a 2 TB VM still requires more than 40 seconds for zeroing)
> >>>
> >>>> If you know that you will run such a VM (or something else) later, you
> >>>> could pre-zero the memory from user space by using a hugetlb-backed file
> >>>> and supplying that to QEMU as memory backend for the VM. Then, you can
> >>>> start your VM without any pre-zeroing.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess that approach should work universally. Of course, there are
> >>>> limitations, as you would have to know how much memory an app needs, and
> >>>> have a way to supply that memory in form of a file to that app.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding user-space pre-zeroing, I agree that it is feasible once the
> >>> VM's memory footprint is known. We evaluated this approach internally;
> >>> however, in production environments, it is almost impossible to predict
> >>> the exact amount of memory a VM will require.
> >>
> >> Of course, you could preallocate to the expected maximum and then
> >> truncate the file to the size you need :)
> > 
> > The solution you described seems similar to delegating hugepage
> > management to a userspace daemon. I haven't explored this approach
> > before, but it appears quite complex. Beyond ensuring secure memory
> > isolation between VMs, we would also need to handle scenarios where
> > the management daemon or the QEMU process crashes, which implies
> > implementing robust recovery and memory reclamation mechanisms. 
> 
> Yes, but I don't think that's particularly complicated. You have to 
> remove the backing file, yes.
> 
> > Do
> > you happen to have any documentation or references regarding
> > userspace hugepage management that I could look into? 
> 
> Not really any documentation. I pretty much only know how QEMU+libvirt 
> ends up using it :)
> 
> > Compared to
> > the userspace approach, I wonder if implementing hugepage
> > pre-zeroing directly within the kernel would be a simpler and more
> > direct way to accelerate VM creation.
> 
> I mean, yes. I don't particularly enjoy user-space having to poll for 
> pre-zeroing of pages ... it feels like an odd interface for something 
> that is supposed to be simple.
> 
> I do understand the reasoning that "zeroing must be charged to 
> somebody", and that using a kthread is a bit suboptimal as well.

My previous explanation may have caused misunderstanding. This
patchset merely exports an interface that allows users to initiate
and halt page zeroing on demand; the CPU cost is borne by the user,
and no kernel thread is introduced.

Thanks,
Zhe