Message-ID: <CAC5umygEq6xvpDFnVnDLYLyqJV7qChEsJ_+W-KCBJ+EXj1948g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 11:01:08 +0900
From: Akinobu Mita <akinobu.mita@...il.com>
To: Joshua Hahn <joshua.hahnjy@...il.com>
Cc: Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.com>, linux-cxl@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, akpm@...ux-foundation.org, 
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	matthew.brost@...el.com, rakie.kim@...com, byungchul@...com, 
	gourry@...rry.net, ying.huang@...ux.alibaba.com, apopple@...dia.com, 
	bingjiao@...gle.com, jonathan.cameron@...wei.com, 
	pratyush.brahma@....qualcomm.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 3/3] mm/vmscan: don't demote if there is not enough
 free memory in the lower memory tier

2026年1月23日(金) 3:34 Joshua Hahn <joshua.hahnjy@...il.com>:
>
> Hello Akinobu,
>
> I hope you are doing well! First of all, sorry for the late review on the
> series. I have a few questions about the problem itself, and how it is being
> triggered.
>
> > > > On systems with multiple memory-tiers consisting of DRAM and CXL memory,
> > > > the OOM killer is not invoked properly.
> > > >
> > > > Here's the command to reproduce:
> > > >
> > > > $ sudo swapoff -a
> > > > $ stress-ng --oomable -v --memrate 20 --memrate-bytes 10G \
> > > >     --memrate-rd-mbs 1 --memrate-wr-mbs 1
> > > >
> > > > The memory usage is the number of workers specified with the --memrate
> > > > option multiplied by the buffer size specified with the --memrate-bytes
> > > > option, so please adjust it so that it exceeds the total size of the
> > > > installed DRAM and CXL memory.
> > > >
> > > > If swap is disabled, you can usually expect the OOM killer to terminate
> > > > the stress-ng process when memory usage approaches the installed memory
> > > > size.
> > > >
> > > > However, if multiple memory-tiers exist (multiple
> > > > /sys/devices/virtual/memory_tiering/memory_tier<N> directories exist) and
> > > > /sys/kernel/mm/numa/demotion_enabled is true, the OOM killer will not be
> > > > invoked and the system will become inoperable, regardless of whether MGLRU
> > > > is enabled or not.
> > > >
> > > > This issue can be reproduced using NUMA emulation even on systems with
> > > > only DRAM.  You can create two-fake memory-tiers by booting a single-node
> > > > system with "numa=fake=2 numa_emulation.adistance=576,704" kernel
> > > > parameters.
>
> [...snip...]
>
> > can_demote() is called from four places.
> > I tried modifying the patch to change the behavior only when can_demote()
> > is called from shrink_folio_list(), but the problem was not fixed
> > (oom did not occur).
> >
> > Similarly, changing the behavior of can_demote() when called from
> > can_reclaim_anon_pages(), shrink_folio_list(), and can_age_anon_pages(),
> > but not when called from get_swappiness(), did not fix the problem either
> > (oom did not occur).
> >
> > Conversely, changing the behavior only when called from get_swappiness(),
> > but not changing the behavior of can_reclaim_anon_pages(),
> > shrink_folio_list(), and can_age_anon_pages(), fixed the problem
> > (oom did occur).
> >
> > Therefore, it appears that the behavior of get_swappiness() is important
> > in this issue.
>
> This is quite mysterious.
>
> Especially because get_swappiness() is an MGLRU exclusive function, I find
> it quite strange that the issue you mention above occurs regardless of whether
> MGLRU is enabled or disabled. With MGLRU disabled, did you see the same hangs
> as before? Were these hangs similarly fixed by modifying the callsite in
> get_swappiness?

Good point.
When MGLRU is disabled, changing only the behavior of can_demote()
called by get_swappiness() did not solve the problem.

Instead, the problem was avoided by changing only the behavior of
can_demote() called by can_reclaim_anon_page(), without changing the
behavior of can_demote() called from other places.

> On a separate note, I feel a bit uncomfortable for making this the default
> setting, regardless of whether there is swap space or not. Just as it is
> easy to create a degenerate scenario where all memory is unreclaimable
> and the system starts going into (wasteful) reclaim on the lower tiers,
> it is equally easy to create a scenario where all memory is very easily
> reclaimable (say, clean pagecache) and we OOM without making any attempt to
> free up memory on the lower tiers.
>
> Reality is likely somewhere in between. And from my perspective, as long as
> we have some amount of easily reclaimable memory, I don't think immediately
> OOMing will be helpful for the system (and even if none of the memory is
> easily reclaimable, we should still try doing something before killing).
>
> > > > The reason for this issue is that memory allocations do not directly
> > > > trigger the oom-killer, assuming that if the target node has an underlying
> > > > memory tier, it can always be reclaimed by demotion.
>
> This patch enforces that the opposite of this assumption is true; that even
> if a target node has an underlying memory tier, it can never be reclaimed by
> demotion.
>
> Certainly for systems with swap and some compression methods (z{ram, swap}),
> this new enforcement could be harmful to the system. What do you think?

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I understand the concern regarding the current patch, which only
checks the free memory of the demotion target node.
I will explore a solution.

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