netdev - Re: [2.6.21 patch] unconditionally enable SYSFS

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Message-ID: <20070306013020.GN23311@waste.org>
Date:	Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:30:21 -0600
From:	Matt Mackall <mpm@...enic.com>
To:	Greg KH <greg@...ah.com>
Cc:	Adrian Bunk <bunk@...sta.de>, Theodore Tso <tytso@....edu>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@...solutions.net>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	yi.zhu@...el.com, jketreno@...ux.intel.com,
	linux-wireless <linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org>, akpm@...l.org
Subject: Re: [2.6.21 patch] unconditionally enable SYSFS_DEPRECATED

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 04:07:22PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 12:40:52AM +0100, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:58:13AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> > > 
> > > Ok, how about the following patch.  Is it acceptable to everyone?
> > > 
> > > thanks,
> > > 
> > > greg k-h
> > > 
> > > ---
> > >  init/Kconfig |   13 +++++++++++--
> > >  1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> > > 
> > > --- gregkh-2.6.orig/init/Kconfig
> > > +++ gregkh-2.6/init/Kconfig
> > > @@ -290,8 +290,17 @@ config SYSFS_DEPRECATED
> > >  	  that belong to a class, back into the /sys/class heirachy, in
> > >  	  order to support older versions of udev.
> > >  
> > > -	  If you are using a distro that was released in 2006 or later,
> > > -	  it should be safe to say N here.
> > > +	  If you are using an OpenSuSE, Gentoo, Ubuntu, or Fedora
> > > +	  release from 2007 or later, it should be safe to say N here.
> > > +
> > > +	  If you are using Debian or other distros that are slow to
> > > +	  update HAL, please say Y here.
> > >...
> > 
> > The sane solution seems to be to enable SYSFS_DEPRECATED unconditionally 
> > for all users, and schedule it's removal for mid-2008 (or later).
> > 
> > 12 months after the first _release_ of a HAL that can live without seems 
> > to be the first time when we can consider getting rid of it, since all 
> > distributions with at least one release a year should ship it by then.
> > 
> > Currently, SYSFS_DEPRECATED is only a trap for users.
> 
> Huh?
> 
> No, again, I've been using this just fine for about 6 months now.
> 
> And what about all of the servers not using HAL/NetworkManager?
> And what about all of the embedded systems not using either?
> 
> So to not allow this to be turned off by people who might want to (we
> want this for OpenSuSE 10.3, and Fedora 7 also will want this, as will
> other distros released this year), is pretty heavy-handed.
> 
> It also will work in OpenSuSE 10.2 which is already released, and I
> think Fedora 6, but I've only limited experience with these.
> 
> Oh, and Gentoo works just fine, and has been for the past 6 months.
>
> I would just prefer to come up with an acceptable set of wording that
> will work to properly warn people.
> 
> I proposed one such wording which some people took as a slam against
> Debian, which it really was not at all.
> 
> Does someone else want to propose some other wording instead?

Back up a bit. Let's review:

Problem: NetworkManager stopped working with my ipw2200 on Debian/unstable

Theory A: It broke because I'm not running an as-yet-unreleased HAL.

 Then we should revert the patch pronto because it's an unqualified
 regression.

Theory B: It broke because I'm not running relatively recent HAL.

 By all accounts I'm running the latest and greatest HAL and Network
 Manager, more than recent enough to work.

Theory C: It broke because I've got some goofy config.

 My setup passes no arguments to either. The HAL config file is
 completely bare-bones and there's no sign of any configuration files
 for Network Manager.

Theory D: It broke for some nebulous Debian-related reason.

 That's a bunch of unhelpful crap.

Can we come up with an actual theory for what's wrong with my setup, please?
Like, perhaps:

Theory E: There's some undiagnosed new breakage that this introduces
that no else hit until it went into mainline.

 Hmmm, this one sounds more promising.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.
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