Date:	Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:42:09 +0200
From:	Daniel Lezcano <dlezcano@...ibm.com>
To:	Kirill Korotaev <dev@...ru>
CC:	Daniel Lezcano <dlezcano@...ibm.com>,
	Pavel Emelianov <xemul@...nvz.org>,
	Kirill Korotaev <dev@...nvz.org>,
	Linux Netdev List <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
	Linux Containers <containers@...ts.osdl.org>,
	Patrick McHardy <kaber@...sh.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Virtual ethernet tunnel

Kirill Korotaev wrote:
> Deniel,
>
> Daniel Lezcano wrote:
>   
>> Pavel Emelianov wrote:
>>
>>     
>>>>> I did this at the very first version, but Alexey showed me that this
>>>>> would be wrong. Look. When we create the second device it must be in
>>>>> the other namespace as it is useless to have them in one namespace.
>>>>> But if we have the device in the other namespace the RTNL_NEWLINK
>>>>> message from kernel would come into this namespace thus confusing ip
>>>>> utility in the init namespace. Creating the device in the init ns and
>>>>> moving it into the new one is rather a complex task.
>>>>>  
>>>>>      
>>>>>           
>>>> Pavel,
>>>>
>>>> moving the netdevice to another namespace is not a complex task. Eric
>>>> Biederman did it in its patchset ( cf.  http://lxc.sf.net/network )
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> By saying complex I didn't mean that this is difficult to implement,
>>> but that it consists (must consist) of many stages. I.e. composite.
>>> Making the device right in the namespace is liter.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>       
>>>> When the pair device is created, both extremeties are into the init
>>>> namespace and you can choose to which namespace to move one extremity.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> I do not mind that.
>>>  
>>>
>>>       
>>>> When the network namespace dies, the netdev is moved back to the init
>>>> namespace.
>>>> That facilitate network device management.
>>>>
>>>> Concerning netlink events, this is automatically generated when the
>>>> network device is moved through namespaces.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, we should have the network device movement between namespaces in
>>>> order to be able to move a physical network device too (eg. you have 4
>>>> NIC and you want to create 3 containers and assign 3 NIC to each of them)
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Agree. Moving the devices is a must-have functionality.
>>>
>>> I do not mind making the pair in the init namespace and move the second
>>> one into the desired namespace. But if we *always* will have two ends in
>>> different namespaces what to complicate things for?
>>>  
>>>       
>> Just to provide a netdev sufficiently generic to be used by people who 
>> don't want namespaces but just want to do some network testing, like Ben 
>> Greear does. He mentioned in a previous email, he will be happy to stop 
>> redirecting people to out of tree patch.
>>
>> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/containers/2007-April/004420.html
>>     
>
> no one is against generic code and ability to create 2 interfaces in *one* namespace.
> (Like we currently allow to do so in OpenVZ)
>
> However, believe me, moving an interface is a *hard* operation. Much harder then netdev
> register from the scratch.
>
> Because it requires to take into account many things like:
> - packets in flight which requires synchronize and is slow on big machines
> - asynchronous sysfs entries registration/deregistration from
>   rtln_unlock -> netdev_run_todo
> - name/ifindex collisions
> - shutdown/cleanup of addresses/routes/qdisc and other similar stuff
>
>   
All of what you are describing is already implemented in the Eric's 
patchset.

You can have a look at :

http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.20/2.6.20-netns1/broken_out/

And more precisly:

for sysfs issues:
http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.20/2.6.20-netns1/broken_out/0065-sysfs-Shadow-directory-support.patch

for network device movement:
http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.20/2.6.20-netns1/broken_out/0096-net-Implment-network-device-movement-between-namesp.patch

Thanks,
Daniel
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