netdev - Re: [RFD] Layering: Use-Case Composers (was: DRBD - what is it, anyways? [compare with e.g. NBD + MD raid])

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-Id: <200708121828.03184.a1426z@gawab.com>
Date:	Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:28:03 +0300
From:	Al Boldi <a1426z@...ab.com>
To:	Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@....mipt.ru>
Cc:	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, linux-raid@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFD] Layering: Use-Case Composers (was: DRBD - what is it, anyways? [compare with e.g. NBD + MD raid])

Evgeniy Polyakov wrote:
> Al Boldi (a1426z@...ab.com) wrote:
> > Look at ZFS; it illegally violates layering by combining md/dm/lvm with
> > the fs, but it does this based on a realistic understanding of the
> > problems involved, which enables it to improve performance, flexibility,
> > and functionality specific to its use case.
> >
> > This implies that there are two distinct forces at work here:
> >
> >   1. Layer components
> >   2. Use-Case composers
> >
> > Layer components should technically not implement any use case (other
> > than providing a plumbing framework), as that would incur unnecessary
> > dependencies, which could reduce its generality and thus reusability.
> >
> > Use-Case composers can now leverage layer components from across the
> > layering hierarchy, to yield a specific use case implementation.
> >
> > DRBD is such a Use-Case composer, as is mdm / dm / lvm and any fs in
> > general, whereas aoe / nbd / loop and the VFS / FUSE are examples of
> > layer components.
> >
> > It follows that Use-case composers, like DRBD, need common functionality
> > that should be factored out into layer components, and then recompose to
> > implement a specific use case.
>
> Out of curiosity, did you try ndb+dm+raid1 compared to drbd and/or zfs
> on top of distributed storage (which is a urprise to me, that holy zfs
> suppors that)?

Actually, I may not have been very clear in my Use-Case composer description 
to mean internal in-kernel Use-Case composer as opposed to external Userland 
Use-Case composer.

So, nbd+dm+raid1 would be an external Userland Use-Case composition, which 
obviously could have some drastic performance issues.

DRBD and ZFS are examples of internal in-kernel Use-Case composers, which 
obviously could show some drastic performance improvements.  

Although you could allow in-kernel Use-Case composers to be run on top of 
Userland Use-Case composers, that wouldn't be the preferred mode of 
operation.  Instead, you would for example recompose ZFS to incorporate an 
in-kernel distributed storage layer component, like nbd.

All this boils down to refactoring Use-Case composers to produce layer 
components with both in-kernel and userland interfaces.  Once we have that, 
it becomes a matter of plug-and-play to produce something awesome like ZFS.

Thanks!

--
Al

-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html