Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999.0708152048270.16414@enigma.security.iitk.ac.in>
Date:	Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:25:05 +0530 (IST)
From:	Satyam Sharma <satyam@...radead.org>
To:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
cc:	Stefan Richter <stefanr@...6.in-berlin.de>,
	Christoph Lameter <clameter@....com>,
	Chris Snook <csnook@...hat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	ak@...e.de, heiko.carstens@...ibm.com, davem@...emloft.net,
	schwidefsky@...ibm.com, wensong@...ux-vs.org, horms@...ge.net.au,
	wjiang@...ilience.com, cfriesen@...tel.com, zlynx@....org,
	rpjday@...dspring.com, jesper.juhl@...il.com,
	segher@...nel.crashing.org,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/24] make atomic_read() behave consistently across all
 architectures

Hi Paul,


On Wed, 15 Aug 2007, Paul E. McKenney wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 07:17:29PM +0530, Satyam Sharma wrote:
> > [...]
> > No, I'd actually prefer something like what Christoph Lameter suggested,
> > i.e. users (such as above) who want "volatile"-like behaviour from atomic
> > ops can use alternative functions. How about something like:
> > 
> > #define atomic_read_volatile(v)			\
> > 	({					\
> > 		forget(&(v)->counter);		\
> > 		((v)->counter);			\
> > 	})
> 
> Wouldn't the above "forget" the value, throw it away, then forget
> that it forgot it, giving non-volatile semantics?

Nope, I don't think so. I wrote the following trivial testcases:
[ See especially tp4.c and tp4.s (last example). ]

==============================================================================
$ cat tp1.c # Using volatile access casts

#define atomic_read(a)	(*(volatile int *)&a)

int a;

void func(void)
{
	a = 0;
	while (atomic_read(a))
		;
}
==============================================================================
$ gcc -Os -S tp1.c; cat tp1.s

func:
	pushl	%ebp
	movl	%esp, %ebp
	movl	$0, a
.L2:
	movl	a, %eax
	testl	%eax, %eax
	jne	.L2
	popl	%ebp
	ret
==============================================================================
$ cat tp2.c # Using nothing; gcc will optimize the whole loop away

#define forget(x)

#define atomic_read(a)		\
	({			\
		forget(&(a));	\
		(a);		\
	})

int a;

void func(void)
{
	a = 0;
	while (atomic_read(a))
		;
}
==============================================================================
$ gcc -Os -S tp2.c; cat tp2.s

func:
	pushl	%ebp
	movl	%esp, %ebp
	popl	%ebp
	movl	$0, a
	ret
==============================================================================
$ cat tp3.c # Using a full memory clobber barrier

#define forget(x)	asm volatile ("":::"memory")

#define atomic_read(a)		\
	({			\
		forget(&(a));	\
		(a);		\
	})

int a;

void func(void)
{
	a = 0;
	while (atomic_read(a))
		;
}
==============================================================================
$ gcc -Os -S tp3.c; cat tp3.s

func:
	pushl	%ebp
	movl	%esp, %ebp
	movl	$0, a
.L2:
	cmpl	$0, a
	jne	.L2
	popl	%ebp
	ret
==============================================================================
$ cat tp4.c # Using a forget(var) macro

#define forget(a)	__asm__ __volatile__ ("" :"=m" (a) :"m" (a))

#define atomic_read(a)		\
	({			\
		forget(a);	\
		(a);		\
	})

int a;

void func(void)
{
	a = 0;
	while (atomic_read(a))
		;
}
==============================================================================
$ gcc -Os -S tp4.c; cat tp4.s

func:
	pushl	%ebp
	movl	%esp, %ebp
	movl	$0, a
.L2:
	cmpl	$0, a
	jne	.L2
	popl	%ebp
	ret
==============================================================================


Possibly these were too trivial to expose any potential problems that you
may have been referring to, so would be helpful if you could write a more
concrete example / sample code.


> > Or possibly, implement these "volatile" atomic ops variants in inline asm
> > like the patch that Sebastian Siewior has submitted on another thread just
> > a while back.
> 
> Given that you are advocating a change (please keep in mind that
> atomic_read() and atomic_set() had volatile semantics on almost all
> platforms), care to give some example where these historical volatile
> semantics are causing a problem?
> [...]
> Can you give even one example
> where the pre-existing volatile semantics are causing enough of a problem
> to justify adding yet more atomic_*() APIs?

Will take this to the other sub-thread ...


> > Of course, if we find there are more callers in the kernel who want the
> > volatility behaviour than those who don't care, we can re-define the
> > existing ops to such variants, and re-name the existing definitions to
> > somethine else, say "atomic_read_nonvolatile" for all I care.
> 
> Do we really need another set of APIs?

Well, if there's one set of users who do care about volatile behaviour,
and another set that doesn't, it only sounds correct to provide both
those APIs, instead of forcing one behaviour on all users.


Thanks,
Satyam
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