netdev - Re: [PATCH 0/24] make atomic_read() behave consistently across all architectures

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Message-Id: <784250b50ba166650cbbb4de29b5559b@kernel.crashing.org>
Date:	Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:09:45 +0200
From:	Segher Boessenkool <segher@...nel.crashing.org>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Christoph Lameter <clameter@....com>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>, heiko.carstens@...ibm.com,
	horms@...ge.net.au, Stefan Richter <stefanr@...6.in-berlin.de>,
	Satyam Sharma <satyam@...radead.org>,
	Ilpo J?rvinen <ilpo.jarvinen@...sinki.fi>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>, ak@...e.de,
	Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>, cfriesen@...tel.com,
	rpjday@...dspring.com, jesper.juhl@...il.com,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, zlynx@....org,
	schwidefsky@...ibm.com, Chris Snook <csnook@...hat.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>, wensong@...ux-vs.org,
	wjiang@...ilience.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/24] make atomic_read() behave consistently across all architectures

> Of course, since *normal* accesses aren't necessarily limited wrt
> re-ordering, the question then becomes one of "with regard to *what* 
> does
> it limit re-ordering?".
>
> A C compiler that re-orders two different volatile accesses that have a
> sequence point in between them is pretty clearly a buggy compiler. So 
> at a
> minimum, it limits re-ordering wrt other volatiles (assuming sequence
> points exists). It also means that the compiler cannot move it
> speculatively across conditionals, but other than that it's starting to
> get fuzzy.

This is actually really well-defined in C, not fuzzy at all.
"Volatile accesses" are a side effect, and no side effects can
be reordered with respect to sequence points.  The side effects
that matter in the kernel environment are: 1) accessing a volatile
object; 2) modifying an object; 3) volatile asm(); 4) calling a
function that does any of these.

We certainly should avoid volatile whenever possible, but "because
it's fuzzy wrt reordering" is not a reason -- all alternatives have
exactly the same issues.


Segher

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