Date:	Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:43:40 +0300
From:	Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@...nvz.org>
To:	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>
CC:	serge@...lyn.com, Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@...nvz.org>,
	Linux Netdev List <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/2] Fix /proc/net in presence of net namespaces

Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@...nvz.org> writes:
> 
>>>>> - Have readdir and lookup filter the directory entries by the pid
>>>>>   namespace of the proc mount.
>>>> So, how are you going to filter the lookup? The problem I see - you have
>>>> a process that opened the /proc/.netns/X directory (he onws that namespace)
>>>> and the other one trying to do the same. The VFS layer finds the hashed
>>>> dentry corresponding to this /proc/.netns/X. The only way you can prevent
>>>> VFS from giving one to the second task is to override .d_revalidate method 
>>>> and drop that dentry....
>>>>
>>>> But we've already tried to walk this way with no luck.
>>> I meant a per mount filtering.  Exactly like we do for the pids now.
>> We (me) do not perform any "filtering" in /proc. I just make /proc play 
>> the VFS rules - one super-block one tree of dentries.
> 
> Exactly.  For different super blocks we return a different set of
> processes and a different set of numbers of those processes.  If you
> do use ids that do not live in a namespace I agree you do not need to
> do different things for different mounts, but that seems ugly and
> problematic.
> 
>>>>> If we make namespaces show up anywhere besides under
>>>>> "/proc/<pid>/task/<tid>/" we have to do something like this, and pids
>>>>> are largely designed for this kind of use.
>>>> Proc consists of two parts - the <pid>-s one with generated-on-the-fly
>>>> entries and the static one that is represented by proc_dir_entry tree.
>>>> Do you propose to mix those two?
>>> Yes.  Because the static entries are beginning to depend on process
>>> specific attributes.  We have already started with /proc/mounts.
>> /proc/<pid>/mounts is not represented with any proc_dir_entry, but
>> what you're proposing with /proc/<pid>/net seems like doing this
>> representation.
> 
> Yes.  I am talking about placing things represented with a
> prod_dir_entry and having them show up under a hierarchy not
> represented with proc_dir_entries under /proc/<pid>.
> 
> As that is clean, worked well for /proc/mounts, does not
> require ids at all, and is essentially the optimal form
> for monitoring processes.
> 
> /proc/mounts used to have a proc_dir_entry.  When it was reimplemented
> to be per fs namespace that was removed.
> 
>>>>> just need a non-global id for our directory entries so we don't paint
>>>>> ourselves into a corner.
>>>> What namespace do you mean by "non-global"?
>>> The best is an id I can take with me when I migrate from machine A
>>> to machine B.  An id in some namespace or a form that doesn't need
>>> an id at all is the core requirement.
>> If we're OK in having a /proc/netns/<xxx> for each namespace, then
>> this <xxx> is an id, regardless whatever it is - a pre-generated 
>> number, a pointer, etc.
>>
>> That said, your only wish is to make this <xxx> be preservable across 
>> migration, right?
> 
> No, that is not my only wish.
> 
> - I wish for a clean maintainable interface.
> - I wish for an interface that we can use for monitoring programs like
>   top and ps.
> - I wish for an interface that is migration safe.
> 
> It is my opinion that using an id is simply an optimization to reduce
> the number of cached proc dentries.
> 
> I gave a full run down of what I wish and the reasons for it earlier
> in this thread. I have not seen you respond to that message.

I took you opinion, expressed in this letter, into account.

> Currently I am NOT ok having a /proc/netns/<xxx>. It appears to be
> a contentious premature optimization.

Have you changed your mind suddenly? 
You told opposite less than a week ago.

> VFS clean, maintainable, and usable for monitoring is
> /proc/<pid>/task/<tid>/net.

Why not /proc/pid/net? Are we ever going to move threads in namespace?

> We can always figure out how to optimize that form later.
> 
> Eric
> 
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