netdev - Re: [PATCH 0/4][RFC] netns: sysfs: add a netns suffix to net device sysfs entries

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Message-ID: <20081022145507.2d1ea86c@extreme>
Date:	Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:55:07 -0700
From:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
To:	ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman)
Cc:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@...ibm.com>,
	Benjamin Thery <benjamin.thery@...l.net>,
	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Dave Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...e.de>,
	Al Viro <viro@....linux.org.uk>,
	Daniel Lezcano <dlezcano@...ibm.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, Tejun Heo <htejun@...il.com>,
	Denis Lunev <den@...nvz.org>,
	Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/4][RFC] netns: sysfs: add a netns suffix to net device
 sysfs entries

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:01:59 -0700
ebiederm@...ssion.com (Eric W. Biederman) wrote:

> "Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@...ibm.com> writes:
> 
> > Quoting Eric W. Biederman (ebiederm@...ssion.com):
> >> Benjamin Thery <benjamin.thery@...l.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Support for network namespaces in mainline is pretty complete for
> >> > some time now, but there is still this issue with sysfs that prevents 
> >> > more people to use it easily.
> >> 
> >> Ben your patchset is completely inappropriate.
> >> 
> >> Temporarily adding elements to the ABI that we intend to remove
> >> is not a proper solution to this problem.
> >> 
> >> That user space visible ida you add is a namespace identifier that breaks
> >> nested containers and migration.  It is very very very wrong.
> >
> > I disagree (not surprising :) completely.  The well-known userspace
> > tools (ifconfig, ip, etc) will not see the lo@1, they'll see lo.
> > Userspace in a container can either umount /sys completely, or do
> 
> The well-known user space tools don't use /sys at all.  Modern
> network tools use rtnetlink (ip) old network tools use /proc/net.
> 
> Very few things actually use /sys and for those things lo@1 or
> eth0@1 are completely useless except for implementing a FUSE
> mock up of sysfs.  But you don't need anything in sysfs to do
> that as all of the interesting information is available through
> /proc/net or rtnetlink.

Lots of scripts are starting use /sys for things. It is easier to
parse /sys/class/net than the output of ifconfig or ip 
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