Message-ID: <20081029134447.34c218c5@extreme>
Date:	Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:44:47 -0700
From:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
To:	Michael Tokarev <mjt@....msk.ru>
Cc:	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: linux bridge and MTU

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:31:56 +0300
Michael Tokarev <mjt@....msk.ru> wrote:

> Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:24:51 +0300
> > Michael Tokarev <mjt@....msk.ru> wrote:
> > 
> >> There's an interesting interaction between different
> >> MTU (max transmission unit) values on interfaces
> >> which are bridged together.  I'm trying to understand
> >> how it works.
> [exchanging larger packets between different interfaces
>   on the same bridge]
> 
> > The bridge is a pure level 2 switch. It tries to conform to the 802.1d standard
> > and therefore is agnostic of higher level protocols. To quote spec
> 
> Yes it is.  But in linux, bridge is not just that, it's ALSO
> a (virtual) network interface, with its own IP address(es),
> netmask(s) and so on.  *And* with the MTU value.
> > 
> > ---------------------
> > 
> > 6.3.8 Maximum Service Data Unit Size
> > The Maximum Service Data Unit Size that can be supported by an IEEE 802 LAN varies with the MAC
> > method and its associated parameters (speed, electrical characteristics, etc.). It may be constrained by the
> > owner of the LAN. The Maximum Service Data Unit Size supported by a Bridge between two LANs is the
> > smaller of that supported by the LANs. No attempt is made by a Bridge to relay a frame to a LAN that does
> > not support the size of Service Data Unit conveyed by that frame.
> 
> Yes that's what I observed, -- the MTU of the bridge *interface*
> is set to the minimum MTU of all interfaces "connected to" this
> bridge.  That part works as expected.
> 
> However, my question was somewhat different.  The host "external"
> to a bridge is able to send larger packets (provided it's individual
> interface has sufficient MTU). But the host that provides home for
> that bridge can not, and can't even reply to larger packets.  Or,
> rather, it does not TRYING to do so, so to say, knowing in advance
> that the MTU is smaller than that.
> 
> What I'd expect from the bridge code is something like: to set
> MTU of the bridge device to the LARGEST mtu of all the interfaces,
> but tell the networking stack to fragment packet ONLY when such
> packet will go to the smaller-MTU interface.  Since bridge in
> linux is NOT a pure level2 thing, it is much more smarter than
> that, and at least knows about MTU and routing.

The bridge device has no special back channel to the networking stack.
It can only advertise one MTU for the local interface. 


> Ok, let's see how it works in case of one of the "external" hosts,
> connected to larger-MTU interface, sends a large packet to another
> host connected to the same bridge but on smaller-mtu port
> (hosts B and C in the above example):
> 
>    B <=== MTU=3000 ===> A (bridge) <=== MTU=1500 ====> C
> 
> B sends a large packet to C.  According to the MTU of its
> local network segment, it sends out a 3000-byte packet.
> And immediately receives an ICMP from A telling "fragmentation
> needed".  So it corrects the MTU and goes on with smaller packets.

A never sees IP. It just drops packet.


> When B sends out a packet destined to A, or even to another
> host connected to the same bridge and also with larger MTU,
> the packet goes just fine.
> 
> I.e., 2 hosts on a "larger-MTU-part" of the bridge can send
> and receive larger packets.  This is true ONLY when the
> sending side is NOT the host running the bridge.  When
> the sending host is A, it can't send larger packets.  Which
> is somewhat strange, as it knows, unlike all the others,
> the whole thing, and has much more chances to "work right".
> 
> > You might be able to do something with netfilter.
> 
> The whole thing has nothing to do with netfilter.  If I didn't
> misunderstand what you meant.
> 

The reason I mentioned netfilter is it that it provides a way to
load special rules on a per interface/per-direction basis to alter
behaviour. It is the tool to put non-standard behaviour in.
One could argue that firewalling is really just one case of non-standard
behaviour.
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