lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:	Tue, 19 May 2009 09:18:39 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
Cc:	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	netfilter-devel@...r.kernel.org, akpm@...ux-foundation.org,
	torvalds@...ux-foundation.org, davem@...emloft.net,
	dada1@...mosbay.com, zbr@...emap.net, jeff.chua.linux@...il.com,
	paulus@...ba.org, laijs@...fujitsu.com, jengelh@...ozas.de,
	r000n@...0n.net, benh@...nel.crashing.org,
	mathieu.desnoyers@...ymtl.ca
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] v5 expedited "big hammer" RCU grace periods

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 02:44:36PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> * Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 10:58:25AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > 
> > > * Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 05:42:41PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > * Paul E. McKenney <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > i might be missing something fundamental here, but why not just 
> > > > > > > have per CPU helper threads, all on the same waitqueue, and wake 
> > > > > > > them up via a single wake_up() call? That would remove the SMP 
> > > > > > > cross call (wakeups do immediate cross-calls already).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > My concern with this is that the cache misses accessing all the 
> > > > > > processes on this single waitqueue would be serialized, slowing 
> > > > > > things down. In contrast, the bitmask that smp_call_function() 
> > > > > > traverses delivers on the order of a thousand CPUs' worth of bits 
> > > > > > per cache miss.  I will give it a try, though.
> > > > > 
> > > > > At least if you go via the migration threads, you can queue up 
> > > > > requests to them locally. But there's going to be cachemisses 
> > > > > _anyway_, since you have to access them all from a single CPU, 
> > > > > and then they have to fetch details about what to do, and then 
> > > > > have to notify the originator about completion.
> > > > 
> > > > Ah, so you are suggesting that I use smp_call_function() to run 
> > > > code on each CPU that wakes up that CPU's migration thread?  I 
> > > > will take a look at this.
> > > 
> > > My suggestion was to queue up a dummy 'struct migration_req' up with 
> > > it (change migration_req::task == NULL to mean 'nothing') and simply 
> > > wake it up using wake_up_process().
> > 
> > OK.  I was thinking of just using wake_up_process() without the
> > migration_req structure, and unconditionally setting a per-CPU
> > variable from within migration_thread() just before the list_empty()
> > check.  In your approach we would need a NULL-pointer check just
> > before the call to __migrate_task().
> > 
> > > That will force a quiescent state, without the need for any extra 
> > > information, right?
> > 
> > Yep!
> > 
> > > This is what the scheduler code does, roughly:
> > > 
> > >                 wake_up_process(rq->migration_thread);
> > >                 wait_for_completion(&req.done);
> > > 
> > > and this will always have to perform well. The 'req' could be put 
> > > into PER_CPU, and a loop could be done like this:
> > > 
> > > 	for_each_online_cpu(cpu)
> > >                 wake_up_process(cpu_rq(cpu)->migration_thread);
> > > 
> > > 	for_each_online_cpu(cpu)
> > >                 wait_for_completion(&per_cpu(req, cpu).done);
> > > 
> > > hm?
> > 
> > My concern is the linear slowdown for large systems, but this 
> > should be OK for modest systems (a few 10s of CPUs).  However, I 
> > will try it out -- it does not need to be a long-term solution, 
> > after all.
> 
> I think there is going to be a linear slowdown no matter what - 
> because sending that many IPIs is going to be linear. (there are no 
> 'broadcast to all' IPIs anymore - on x86 we only have them if all 
> physical APIC IDs are 7 or smaller.)

With the current code, agreed.  One could imagine making an IPI tree,
so that a given CPU IPIs (say) eight subordinates.  Making this work
nice with CPU hotplug would be entertaining, to say the least.

> Also, no matter what scheme we use, the target CPU does have to be 
> processed somehow and it does have to signal completion back somehow 
> - which generates cachemisses.

One could in theory use a combining tree, so that results filter up,
sort of like they do in rcutree.  But given that rcutree already has a
combining tree, I would like to do this part in rcutree.

> I think what probaby matters most is to go simple, and to use 
> established kernel primitives - and the above is really typical 
> pattern for things like TLB flushes to a process having a presence 
> on every physical CPU. Those aspects will be kept reasonably fast 
> and balanced on all hardware that matters. (and if not, people will 
> notice any TLB flush/shootdown linear slowdowns and will address it)
> 
> I could be wrong though ... maybe someone can get some numbers from 
> a really large system?

In theory, I have access to a 64-way system.  In practice, it is
extremely heavily booked.

I will try your straightforward approach.

							Thanx, Paul
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Powered by blists - more mailing lists