Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0912031735240.7024@wel-95.cs.helsinki.fi>
Date:	Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:48:20 +0200 (EET)
From:	"Ilpo Järvinen" <ilpo.jarvinen@...sinki.fi>
To:	Arnd Hannemann <hannemann@...s.rwth-aachen.de>
cc:	Frederic Leroy <fredo@...rox.org>,
	Damian Lukowski <damian@....rwth-aachen.de>,
	Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@...dor.apana.org.au>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@...e.de>
Subject: Re: scp stalls mysteriously

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009, Arnd Hannemann wrote:

> Ilpo Järvinen wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 Dec 2009, Arnd Hannemann wrote:
> > 
> >> Ilpo Järvinen wrote:
> >>
> >> [snipped]
> >>
> >>> Also, we have the another mystery to be solved, the fast retransmission is 
> >>> not triggered for some reason (or alternatively not captured in to a 
> >>> log), even in the working .9. case. It would be easy to see whether it 
> >>> works at all from TCP point of view by looking into mibs once you have 
> >>> have some transfers in a working configuration:
> >>>
> >>> grep -A1 TCP /proc/net/netstat
> >>>
> >>> ...luckily this fast retransmit issue is less crucial as almost all people 
> >>> are pretty happy already if their RTO-based recovery works even if the 
> >>> fast recovery would not. So figuring it out can be postponed (if one has 
> >>> to prioritize) until the silent death issue is out of the way.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I looked at the working .9 case stream from 192.168.1.15 to 192.168.1.19.
> >> I don't think it is a mystery that fast retransmit does not trigger.
> >> The condition SACKED_DATA > 3* SMSS is simply not fulfilled.
> >> Neither are there 3 non-continuous SACK sequences.
> >> The segments sent are too small :-(
> >> Interesting though, seems to me in this case non-SACK would be better than SACK.
> >> Or did I miss something?
> > 
> > Yes, a particularly big one, linux does not count SACKs bytes but packets. 
> > In the first recovery, plenty of packets are SACKed:
> > 
> >     135 sack 1 {2598:2646}>
> >     108 sack 1 {2598:2694}>
> >     121 sack 1 {2598:2742}>
> >      95 sack 1 {2598:2790}>
> >     426 sack 1 {2598:2838}>
> > 
> > fackets_out should be 6 now which is way more than 3 which is the 
> > default tp->reordering.
> 
> Ok, you probable know better than me.
> But, aren't the SKBs collapsed to SMSS size segments and then
> counted? I thought so.
> The 3*SMSS restriction is from RFC 3517, but of course you know.

On the sender side (for SACKed skbs) we should retrain the segment 
counter still for the collapsed skb (at least in SACK code this was my 
intention but it could be that there is something wrong in that area).
Besides, I think I've seen the fast rexmit missing with "sack 3" (ie., 
three holes) case too so that would point out into some other bug.

Btw, we can potentially go well beyond MSS sized collapse too for the 
sacked skbs as long as there is room in sg frags. It's a different store 
for the rexmits though but that "collapse" is not significant here I 
think.

> >> Hey we could cook up a draft for this problem ;-)
> >>
> >> Anyway, real problem is, RTO does not trigger...
> > 
> > There are two problems. ...Both are real. ;-) But significance of the 
> > other is much worse than the other.
> 
> I agree.
> I'm already trying to get scp stalling, but no luck so far. Neither with
> artificially dropping packets, nor using WLAN :-(

I got it to happen but sadly scp stalled because of another issue related 
to rtt bloat (check this thread in archive if you're interested). I think 
that might need some clarification for 1323bis too but I'm currently 
thinking it through before giving my input/feedback on that on tcpm.

Are you sure you drop for the right direction, ie., for the ACK/scp flow 
control direction which sends those small packets? Data direction losses 
seem somewhat insignificant here.

-- 
 i.

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