netdev - Re: UDP Fragmentation and DF bit..

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Message-ID: <C82438FF.170E9%pradeepv@amazon.com>
Date:	Thu, 27 May 2010 14:58:07 -0700
From:	"Vincent, Pradeep" <pradeepv@...zon.com>
To:	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>
CC:	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: UDP Fragmentation and DF bit..

Thanks Andi.

> I don't understand your mtu-small/big concept. PMTU is per IP and per
> flow. So there's only always a single PMTU, not small and big.

Example Setup: One part of the network supports MTU-big and another part of
the network supports MTU-small. The NIC interfaces are configured with MTU
corresponding to the part of the network they are connected to.

When a host in MTU-big part of the network sends a packet to a host in
MTU-small part of the network, the router bordering these two sections of
the network sends ICMP messages to the host in MTU-big section of the
network to enable PMTU discovery.

Everything works great for TCP. UDP's PMTU discovery seems to be available
for some datagram sizes ( size < MTU-big) but not otherwise.

>DF=1 on fragments would mean the application has to do pmtu discovery
> even with fragments for the case when the kernel does not know
> the path mtu yet.

Is there a reason kernel can't learn the PMTU using ICMP messages generated
due to large size fragments with DF=1 ?

>But if the app supports pmtu discovery it's better
> to not use fragments in the first place.

Absolutely. 

Thanks,

- Pradeep Vincent

On 5/27/10 2:43 AM, "Andi Kleen" <andi@...stfloor.org> wrote:

> "Vincent, Pradeep" <pradeepv@...zon.com> writes:
> 
>> OMan 7 ip¹ declares that ³The  system-wide  default  is  controlled  by  the
>> ip_no_pmtu_disc  sysctl  for SOCK_STREAM  sockets,  and  disabled  on all
>> others.² which led me to think ODF¹ bit will not be set for UDP packets.
>> But..
> 
> One should add ip.7 is not really a spec, just documentation
> how things were quite a few years ago. It unfortunately
> does often not get updated when things change.
> 
>> 
>> In a network environment where MTU-big and MTU-small co-exist (and have
>> router¹s fragmentation turned off in favor of PMTU discovery), UDP packets
>> that are > MTU-small and < MTU-big find the PMTU effectively but UDP
>> packets
> 
> 
> I don't understand your mtu-small/big concept. PMTU is per IP and per
> flow. So there's only always a single PMTU, not small and big.
> 
> Or do you refer to a single IP NAT situation where a single IP
> shares different MTUs?
> 
>> Is there a reason ODF¹ bit cannot be set on fragmented packets on UDP
>> transmission ? I couldn¹t find anything in RFC for IP protocol that
>> prohibited DF bit on fragmented packets. Did I miss
>> something here ?
> 
>> Would it be reasonable if PMTU discovery is performed (DF bit set +
>> appropriate icmp logic) even for locally fragmented packets ? I think
>> this
> 
> 
> DF=1 on fragments would mean the application has to do pmtu discovery
> even with fragments for the case when the kernel does not know
> the path mtu yet. But if the app supports pmtu discovery it's better
> to not use fragments in the first place.
> 
> -Andi
> 
> --
> ak@...ux.intel.com -- Speaking for myself only.
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