netdev - Re: TCP: orphans broken by RFC 2525 #2.17

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-Id: <20100927.004239.58422076.davem@davemloft.net>
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 2010 00:42:39 -0700 (PDT)
From:	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>
To:	w@....eu
Cc:	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: TCP: orphans broken by RFC 2525 #2.17

From: Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:34:43 +0200

> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:42:02PM -0700, David Miller wrote:
>> just because your application
>> doesn't want to wait around to sink a pending newline character?
> 
> it's not that it *doesn't want* to wait for the pending newline character,
> it's that this character has no reason to be there and cannot be predicted,
> and even when you find it, nothing tells the application that it's the last
> one.
> 
>> Is that what this boils down to?
> 
> No, it's the opposite in fact, the goal is to ensure we can reliably
> release the whole connection ASAP instead of being forced to sink any
> possible data that may come from it and that will not be consumed nor
> will lead to a reset. Look :

I still think it's completely broken that you want to close a
connection for which data is still going to arrive.

And I really can't think of why this can't be solved at the
application level.

Either there is an application level ACK that you have to wait for
anyways, or there isn't and you receive the entire request packet
before you start sending the data.

If there is some kind of unpredictable "dribbling" after the request
arrives, you really have to fix that.

I honestly have no sympathy for an application level protocol that
works this way, and I don't think the kernel is the place where this
should be handled.

Please don't exhaust me any further on this issue, thank you.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html