Message-ID: <20101115124428.7b857ccb@nehalam>
Date:	Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:44:28 -0800
From:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
To:	Ben Hutchings <bhutchings@...arflare.com>
Cc:	Jeff Garzik <jeff@...zik.org>, NetDev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>
Subject: Re: the future of ethtool

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:18:46 +0000
Ben Hutchings <bhutchings@...arflare.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2010-11-15 at 14:41 -0500, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > Thanks for accepting ethtool maintainership.
> > 
> > There are two key unresolved issues with ethtool that are worth noting 
> > to the next maintainer.  Both of these come from years of user and 
> > customer complaints.
> > 
> > 1) ethtool command line interface.
> > 
> > For 1,001 minor reasons of user taste and expectation, people tend to 
> > complain about the command line interface.  Due to script usage it is 
> > set in stone, and has been since before my tenure.  But users 
> > continually request something more flexible, often, in particular, 
> > wanting to set multiple settings in one execution, or wanting to apply 
> > the same setting to multiple interface in one execution.
> > 
> > Obviously one can script this, but, it is probably the #1 user request.
> 
> Thinking further along those lines, it would be useful to have ethtool
> API bindings for Perl/Python/whatever, though those belong outside of
> the current ethtool package.  I tried doing that for use in my own
> scripts and it looks reasonably practical, though I'm not volunteering
> to maintain such bindings.
> 
> > My thought was to create "nictool", a new tool with more flexible 
> > command line interface, using the same old ethtool ioctls currently in 
> > use today.  ('nictool' also solves a minor naming complaint from 
> > wireless and other people, who use ethtool on non-ethernet network 
> > interfaces)
> 
> I agree, some of the ethtool operations are very Ethernet-specific but
> enough of them are applicable to other media that this makes sense.
> 
> I've recently been looking at FreeBSD where the sort of configuration we
> do through ethtool is invoked through ifconfig, but then ifconfig is
> effectively deprecated on Linux...
> 
> > 2) multiple settings and the ethtool kernel interface
> > 
> > Another common complaint is related to multiple settings, and associated 
> > hardware NIC resets.
> > 
> > Many ethtool driver implementations look like this:
> > 
> > 	ethtool_op_do_something()
> > 		stop RX/TX
> > 		apply settings
> > 		perform full NIC reset, consuming much time
> > 		start RX/TX
> > 
> > The problem arises when the user wishes to change multiple hardware 
> > attributes at the same time.  A user wishing to change 4 attributes 
> > could wind up with 4 ethtool(1) invocations, with 4 accompanying 
> > hardware NIC resets.  Time consuming, inefficient, and unnecessary.
> 
> Right.  In fact the begin() and complete() operations look like they
> were meant to support this sort of optimisation.  Is that the case?
> 
> Ben.
> 
> > Obviously the world has not ended without these changes, but these items 
> > do cause continued complaints from users, and we're here to be 
> > responsive to users presumably ;-)
> 
> 

My views are simple:

Ethtool needs to be an extension of existing netlink API for interfaces.
  - handles multiple values per transaction
  - extensible

Someone has to write good libraries to access netlink from Perl/Python/C++.
The best so far is libmnl.

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