netdev - Re: TCP delayed ACK heuristic

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Message-ID: <50D0ADD4.7030903@hp.com>
Date:	Tue, 18 Dec 2012 09:54:28 -0800
From:	Rick Jones <rick.jones2@...com>
To:	David Laight <David.Laight@...LAB.COM>
CC:	Cong Wang <amwang@...hat.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	Ben Greear <greearb@...delatech.com>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>,
	Thomas Graf <tgraf@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: TCP delayed ACK heuristic

On 12/18/2012 08:39 AM, David Laight wrote:
> There are problems with only implementing the acks
> specified by RFC1122.
>
> I've seen problems when the sending side is doing (I think)
> 'slow start' with Nagle disabled.
> The sender would only send 4 segments before waiting for an
> ACK - even when it had more than a full sized segment waiting.
> Sender was Linux 2.6.something (probably low 20s).
> I changed the application flow to send data in the reverse
> direction to avoid the problem.
> That was on a ~0 delay local connection - which means that
> there is almost never outstanding data, and the 'slow start'
> happened almost all the time.
> Nagle is completely the wrong algorithm for the data flow.

If Nagle was already disabled, why the last sentence?  And from your 
description, even if Nagle were enabled, I would think that it was 
remote ACK+cwnd behaviour getting in your way, not Nagle, given that 
Nagle is to be decided on a user-send by user-send basis and release 
queued data (to the mercies of other heuristics) when it gets to be an 
MSS-worth.

The joys of intertwined heuristics I suppose.

Personally, I would love for there to be a way to have a cwnd's 
byte-limit's-worth of small segments outstanding at one time - it would 
make my netperf-life much easier as I could get rid of the netperf-level 
congestion window intended to keep successive requests (with Nagle 
already disabled) from getting coalesced by cwnd in a "burst-mode" test. 
* And perhaps make things nicer for the test when there is the 
occasional retransmission.  I used to think that netperf was just 
"unique" in that regard, but it sounds like you have an actual 
application looking to do that??

rick jones

* because I am trying to (ab)use the burst mode TCP_RR test for a 
maximum packets per second through the stack+NIC measurement that isn't 
also a context  switching benchmark. But I cannot really come-up with a 
real-world rationale to support further cwnd behaviour changes. 
Allowing a byte-limit-cwnd's worth of single-byte-payload TCP segments 
could easily be seen as being rather anti-social :)  And 
forcing/maintaining the original segment boundaries in retransmissions 
for small packets isn't such a hot idea either.
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