netdev - Re: [PATCH net] rtnetlink: fix userspace API breakage for iproute2

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Message-ID: <CA+55aFxQMw0s1N2SspU-DWbZ-h4mho4dVFrX5qm=ZHKrsUGbmw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:44:49 -0700
From:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:	Michal Schmidt <mschmidt@...hat.com>
Cc:	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
	Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
	michael.riesch@...cron.at
Subject: Re: [PATCH net] rtnetlink: fix userspace API breakage for iproute2 < v3.9.0

David, I have to agree with Michal. If the user-space tool did what it
had to do for old kernels, then new kernels should support the old
semantics.

You can't call it a "bug" - user space does what it does and it was
tested and worked.

And sure, it might have been a bug/misfeature of the old kernel, but
we have to live with what we have done, not blame others. Once user
space starts depending on our bugs, it's *our* problem.

Saying "fix your sh*t" is wrong, when we caused it to begin with.

            Linus

On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Michal Schmidt <mschmidt@...hat.com> wrote:
> On 06/03/2014 02:21 PM, Michal Schmidt wrote:
>> On 05/31/2014 02:42 AM, David Miller wrote:
>>>
>>> The userspace tool should be fixed on the system, rather than having the
>>> kernel cater to a user tool bug.
>>>
>>> I'm not applying this, sorry.
>>
>> the old version of the userspace tool did what it had to do in order to
>> work with a contemporary kernel. You can call that a bug, but the fact
>> is that it used to work that way.
>>
>> I do not see a difference between "catering to a user tool bug" and
>> "not breaking applications, whether we like them or not" (paraphrasing
>> Linus's message on this very mailing list just 10 days ago).
>
> Dave,
> I am sorry for harping on this, but could you please either reconsider
> the NAK, or explain what considerations are more important than
> userspace compatibility in this case?
>
>> I could understand your objection if my proposed patch could break
>> something else, but you are not saying that, are you?
>
> Michal
>
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