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Date:	Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:34:48 -0500
From:	Dan Williams <dcbw@...hat.com>
To:	Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no>
Cc:	Dexuan Cui <decui@...rosoft.com>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	"olaf@...fle.de" <olaf@...fle.de>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard.weinberger@...il.com>,
	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	"jasowang@...hat.com" <jasowang@...hat.com>,
	"driverdev-devel@...uxdriverproject.org" 
	<driverdev-devel@...uxdriverproject.org>,
	Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@...rosoft.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Shao <huishao@...rosoft.com>,
	"Yue Zhang (OSTC DEV)" <yuezha@...rosoft.com>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Hyperv: Trigger DHCP renew after host hibernation

On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 15:15 +0200, Tom Gundersen wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Dexuan Cui <decui@...rosoft.com> wrote:
> >> From: Tom Gundersen
> >> > Unluckily this logic doesn't work because the user-space daemons
> >> > like ifplugd, usually don't renew the DHCP immediately as long as they
> >> > receive a link-down message: they usually wait for some seconds and if
> >> > they find the link becomes up soon, they won't trigger renew operations.
> >> > (I guess this behavior can be somewhat reasonable: maybe the daemons
> >> > try to not trigger DHCP renew on temporary link instability)
> >> >
> >> networkd does not suffer from this problem, and in ifplugd it can be
> > I didn't have time to check the code of networkd, but I think it does have the
> > same behavior.
> > e.g., on a bare metal host with Ubuntu 14.04, when I plug the RJ45 cable out
> > of the network card and then plug the cable back into the network card
> > quickly -- in ~3 seconds, networkd doesn't trigger DHCP renew request: in
> > /var/log/syslog, we see
> > Aug 12 11:07:07 decui-lin NetworkManager[828]: <info> (eth0): carrier now OFF (device state 100, deferring action for 4 seconds)
> > Aug 12 11:07:07 decui-lin kernel: [  246.975453] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Down
> > Aug 12 11:07:10 decui-lin NetworkManager[828]: <info> (eth0): carrier now ON (device state 100)
> > Aug 12 11:07:10 decui-lin kernel: [  250.028533] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: Rx/Tx
> >
> > It looks there is a delay of 4s.
> > I'm going to find out if there is a configurable parameter for this.
> 
> Just to avoid any confusion: you are referring to "networkd" (and so
> did my comments), but the above logs are from "NetworkManager".

And yes, NM does have a 4-second delay before processing a carrier down
event, and NM currently does not renew DHCP on link changes, but that's
certainly something we can/should change.

Dan

> >> disabled. Most other network drivers will send
> >> IFF_LOWER_DOWN/IFF_LOWER_UP upon suspend/resume so if you were to
> >> do the same you will not work any worse than the others. What would be
> > suspend/resume(ACPI S3?) is different  as this is usually > 4 seconds?  :-)
> 
> Sure, but that's clearly not something we should rely on.
> 
> >> nice, as mentioned by Dan and Lennart, would be to send an additional
> >> explicit event such as "resumed from suspend" or "L3 may be wrong".
> > Sorry, I neglected to reply this.
> > IMHO even if we add the new event, we still need lots of efforts to
> > make the various userland daemons(ifplugd, networkd, etc) to use the
> > new event.
> > And looks we're the first user of this new event. I'm not sure if this issue
> > here can convince the network subsystem maintainers such a new event
> > is a must.
> >
> >> That should be a generic thing though, to fix all such issues in one
> >> go.
> > I agree, though this requires we update all the userland daemons...
> >
> >> > I'm not sure our attempt to "fix" the daemons can be easily accepted.
> >> > BTW, by CPUID, an application has a reliable way to determine  if it's
> >> > running on hyper-v on not. Maybe we can "fix" the behavior of the
> >> > daemons when they run on hyper-v?
> >> > BTW2, according to my limited experience, I doubt other VMMs can
> >> > handle this auto-DHCP-renew-in-guest issue properly.
> >>
> >> To the extent this is a problem, it is a generic one, so we should not
> >> need any hyper-v specific logic in userspace.
> > OK, I understood.
> >
> >> > That was why Yue's patch wanted to add a SLEEP(10s) between the
> >> > link-down and link-up events and hoped this could be an acceptable
> >> > fix(while it turned out not, obviously), though we admit it's not so good
> >> > to add such a magic number "10s" in a kernel driver.
> >> >
> >> > Please point it out if I missed or misunderstand something.
> >> >
> >> > Now I understand it's not good to pass the event to the udev daemon,
> >> > and it's not good to use a SLEEP(10s) in the kernel space(even if it's in a
> >> > "work" task here).
> >>
> >> Please just expose to userspace what is happening (link lost/gained,
> >> resumed from suspend/...), and let us sort out how to react to that.
> >> If you put assumptions about what kind of timeouts (long-dead)
> >> userspace uses into your drivers you'll just create a mess.
> > OK, I got it now.
> > So I think I'm supposed to send out a netif_carrier_off()/on() patch,
> > and I'd better do this after I verify the daemons can work with
> > proper parameters specified.
> >
> >> > Please let me know if it's the correct direction to fix the user-space
> >> > daemons (ifplugd, systemd-networkd, etc).
> >> > If you think this is viable and we should do this, I'll submit a
> >> > netif_carrier_off/on patch first and will start to work with the
> >> > projects of ifplugd, systemd-networkd and many OSVs to make the
> >> > while thing work eventually.
> >>
> >> Have you actually checked that carrier_off/on does not work on
> >> anything but ifplugd? It would surprise me...
> > I can confirm carrier_off/on with 0 delay between the off and on
> > doesn't work for ifplugd and networkd.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -- Dexuan
> --
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