Message-ID: <541D74A8.6080501@mojatatu.com>
Date:	Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:35:52 -0400
From:	Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>
To:	Thomas Graf <tgraf@...g.ch>
CC:	Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
	John Fastabend <john.r.fastabend@...el.com>,
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Subject: Re: [patch net-next v2 8/9] switchdev: introduce Netlink API

On 09/20/14 07:51, Thomas Graf wrote:

> I fail to see the connection. You can use switch vendor SDK no matter
> how we define the kernel APIs. They already exist and have been
> designed in a way to be completely indepenedent from the kernel.
>
> Are you referring to vendor specific decisions in user space in
> general? I believe that the whole point of swdev is to provide *that*
> level of abstraction so decisions can be made in a vendor neutral way.
>

I am not against the swdev idea. I think we have disagreements
for the general classification/action interface how that should look
like - but that is resolvable with correct interfaces.
The vendor neutral way *already exists* via current netlink
abstractions that existing tools use. When we need to add new
interfaces then we should.

> I don't think anybody is saying that. P4 is likely a reality soon. But
> we definitely want hardware offload in a BPF world even if the hardware
> can't do BPF yet.
>


I dont think we have contradictions. We are speaking past each other.
You implied that in the future OVS s/w path might be based on BPF.
I implied BPF itself could be offloaded and stands on its own merit
and should work if we have the correct interface. As an example,
I dont care about P4 or OVS - but i have no problem if they use
the common interfaces provided by Linux. i.e
If i want to build  a little cpu running the BPF instruction set
and use that as my offload then that interface should work and if
it doesnt i should provide extensions.

> Not sure I understand. OVS would be a user of eBPF just like tracing,
> xt_BPF, socket filter, ...
>

Ok, we are on the same page then.

> As I said, this can be argued about. It would require to push a lot of
> context into the kernel though. The FDB offload is relatively trivial
> in comparison to the complexity OVS user space can handle. I can't think
> of any reasons why to complicate the kernel further with OVS specific
> knowledge as long as we can guarantee the vendor abstraction.
>

I disagree. OVS maybe complex in that sense (I am sorry i am making
an assumption based on what you are saying) but i dont think there is
any other kernel subsystem that has this challenge.
Note: i am pointing to fdb only because it carries the concept of "put
this in hardware and/or software". I agree the fdb maybe reasonably
simpler.

cheers,
jamal
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