Message-ID: <20141024081139.GA8861@thin>
Date:	Fri, 24 Oct 2014 01:11:39 -0700
From:	Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org>
To:	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...mgrid.com>
Cc:	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
	Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@...essinduktion.org>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
	Daniel Borkmann <dborkman@...hat.com>,
	Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net] bpf: split eBPF out of NET

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:32:50PM -0700, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Josh Triplett <josh@...htriplett.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 06:41:08PM -0700, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> >> introduce two configs:
> >> - hidden CONFIG_BPF to select eBPF interpreter that classic socket filters
> >>   depend on
> >> - visible CONFIG_BPF_SYSCALL (default off) that tracing and sockets can use
> >>
> >> that solves several problems:
> >> - tracing and others that wish to use eBPF don't need to depend on NET.
> >>   They can use BPF_SYSCALL to allow loading from userspace or select BPF
> >>   to use it directly from kernel in NET-less configs.
> >> - in 3.18 programs cannot be attached to events yet, so don't force it on
> >> - when the rest of eBPF infra is there in 3.19+, it's still useful to
> >>   switch it off to minimize kernel size
> >>
> >> Signed-off-by: Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...mgrid.com>
> >
> > Thanks for working on this!  A few nits below, but otherwise this looks
> > good to me.  Once this gets appropriate reviews from net and bpf folks,
> > please let me know if you want this to go through the net tree, the tiny
> > tree, or some other tree.
> 
> Thanks :)
> I've sent it to Dave and marked it as 'net', so it's for
> his net tree. I don't mind if he decides to steer it into net-next
> when it opens, since changing Kconfig is always tricky.
> I just felt that this patch deserves to be in 'net' and in 3.18-rc

Ah, nice; yes, getting it into 3.18-rc would be excellent if possible.

> >> bloat-o-meter on x64 shows:
> >> add/remove: 0/60 grow/shrink: 0/2 up/down: 0/-15601 (-15601)
> >
> > Very nice!  Please do include the bloat-o-meter stats in the commit
> > message.
> 
> I don't think that's necessary. eBPF is in early stages of adoption.
> More things to come, so bloat-o-meter stats will be obsolete
> very quickly.

I don't mean the full list of symbols, just the summary saying this
saves 15k.

> >> +# interpreter that classic socket filters depend on
> >> +config BPF
> >> +     boolean
> >
> > s/boolean/bool/
> 
> Is there a difference? I thought it's an alias.

It's an alias, but almost everything uses "bool":

~/src/linux$ git grep -w bool -- '*Kconfig*' | wc -l
7064
~/src/linux$ git grep -w boolean -- '*Kconfig*' | wc -l
94

> >> +config BPF_SYSCALL
> >> +     bool "Enable bpf() system call" if EXPERT
> >> +     select ANON_INODES
> >> +     select BPF
> >> +     default n
> >> +     help
> >> +       Enable the bpf() system call that allows to manipulate eBPF
> >> +       programs and maps via file descriptors.
> >
> > Not sure this one goes under EXPERT, especially since it currently has
> > "default n".
> 
> I followed the same style as EPOLL, EVENTFD and others
> in the same category.

I was thinking of CROSS_MEMORY_ATTACH and FHANDLE in the same file.

> >> +/* To execute LD_ABS/LD_IND instructions __bpf_prog_run() may call
> >> + * skb_copy_bits(), so provide a weak definition of it for NET-less config.
> >> + */
> >> +int __weak skb_copy_bits(const struct sk_buff *skb, int offset, void *to,
> >> +                      int len)
> >> +{
> >> +     return -EFAULT;
> >> +}
> >
> > Please discuss this in the commit message.  What are the implications of
> > ending up with this implementation that always returns -EFAULT?
> 
> because that's what real skb_copy_bits() would return.
> In this case it's actually irrelevant, since non-socket programs
> are not allowed to have LD_ABS/LD_IND instructions and
> I'm only resolving linker error here.
> But returning negative error helps prevent bugs in cases
> where verifier or some in-kernel generated program uses
> LD_ABS by mistake.

Makes sense.

> I don't think these type of explanations are necessary in
> commit logs.
> 
> >> @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ menuconfig NET
> >>       bool "Networking support"
> >>       select NLATTR
> >>       select GENERIC_NET_UTILS
> >> -     select ANON_INODES
> >> +     select BPF
> >
> > Why does this not need to select ANON_INODES anymore?  Did *only* BPF
> > use that, so it only needs to occur via BPF_SYSCALL?  If so, can you
> > document that in the commit message?
> 
> I hope that folks who were following this work on netdev
> remember commit 38b3629adb8c04 that added it.
> So here I'm actually removing this ANON_INODES dependency
> from NET and moving it into BPF_SYSCALL where it belongs.

Thanks for the clarification.

> btw, the goal of this patch is not tinification, but rather being
> good citizen and not forcing new syscall on everyone.

A critical part of the tinification effort is not having the kernel get
gratuitously bigger in other areas while we're trying to shrink it.  So,
I really appreciate your work. :)

- Josh Triplett
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