netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next] net: introduce SO_INCOMING

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Message-ID: <CALCETrUuChgxXcNrKjYzpe1ry0hx3kf19EfAbY1N1YnG7NFZUw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:16:18 -0800
From:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
To:	Tom Herbert <therbert@...gle.com>
Cc:	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>, Ying Cai <ycai@...gle.com>,
	Willem de Bruijn <willemb@...gle.com>,
	Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@...gle.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] net: introduce SO_INCOMING_CPU

On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Tom Herbert <therbert@...gle.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2014-11-14 at 09:17 -0800, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>>
>>> As a heavy user of RFS (and finder of bugs in it, too), here's my
>>> question about this API:
>>>
>>> How does an application tell whether the socket represents a
>>> non-actively-steered flow?  If the flow is subject to RFS, then moving
>>> the application handling to the socket's CPU seems problematic, as the
>>> socket's CPU might move as well.  The current implementation in this
>>> patch seems to tell me which CPU the most recent packet came in on,
>>> which is not necessarily very useful.
>>
>> Its the cpu that hit the TCP stack, bringing dozens of cache lines in
>> its cache. This is all that matters,
>>
>>>
>>> Some possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1. Let SO_INCOMING_CPU fail if RFS or RPS are in play.
>>
>> Well, idea is to not use RFS at all. Otherwise, it is useless.

Sure, but how do I know that it'll be the same CPU next time?

>>
> Bear in mind this is only an interface to report RX CPU and in itself
> doesn't provide any functionality for changing scheduling, there is
> obviously logic needed in user space that would need to do something.
>
> If we track the interrupting CPU in skb, the interface could be easily
> extended to provide the interrupting CPU, the RPS CPU (calculated at
> reported time), and the CPU processing transport (post steering which
> is what is currently returned). That would provide the complete
> picture to control scheduling a flow from userspace, and an interface
> to selectively turn off RFS for a socket would make sense then.

I think that a turn-off-RFS interface would also want a way to figure
out where the flow would go without RFS.  Can the network stack do
that (e.g. evaluate the rx indirection hash or whatever happens these
days)?

>
>> RFS is the other way around : You want the flow to follow your thread.
>>
>> RPS wont be a problem if you have sensible RPS settings.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. Change the interface a bit to report the socket's preferred CPU
>>> (where it would go without RFS, for example) and then let the
>>> application use setsockopt to tell the socket to stay put (i.e. turn
>>> off RFS and RPS for that flow).
>>>
>>> 3. Report the preferred CPU as in (2) but let the application ask for
>>> something different.
>>>
>>> For example, I have flows for which I know which CPU I want.  A nice
>>> API to put the flow there would be quite useful.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, it may be worth changing the naming to indicate that these are
>>> about the rx cpu (they are, right?).  For some applications (sparse,
>>> low-latency flows, for example), it can be useful to keep the tx
>>> completion handling on a different CPU.
>>
>> SO_INCOMING_CPU is rx, like incoming ;)
>>
>>

Duh :)

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-- 
Andy Lutomirski
AMA Capital Management, LLC
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