Date:	Mon, 8 Dec 2014 20:56:37 +0100
From:	Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@...il.com>
To:	Marcel Holtmann <marcel@...tmann.org>
Cc:	Dan Williams <dcbw@...hat.com>,
	"Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Ming Lei <ming.lei@...onical.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
	"John W. Linville" <linville@...driver.com>,
	Grazvydas Ignotas <notasas@...il.com>,
	"linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org" <linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org>,
	Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Ivaylo Dimitrov <ivo.g.dimitrov.75@...il.com>,
	Aaro Koskinen <aaro.koskinen@....fi>,
	Kalle Valo <kvalo@...rom.com>,
	Sebastian Reichel <sre@...g0.de>,
	David Gnedt <david.gnedt@...izone.at>
Subject: Re: wl1251: NVS firmware data

On Monday 08 December 2014 20:46:07 Marcel Holtmann wrote:
> Hi Pali,
> 
> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday 06 December 2014 13:49:54 Pavel Machek
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: /**
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> + * request_firmware_prefer_user: - prefer usermode
> >>>>>>>>>> helper for loading firmware + * @firmware_p:
> >>>>>>>>>> pointer to firmware image
> >>>>>>>>>> + * @name: name of firmware file
> >>>>>>>>>> + * @device: device for which firmware is being
> >>>>>>>>>> loaded + *
> >>>>>>>>>> + * This function works pretty much like
> >>>>>>>>>> request_firmware(), but it prefer + * usermode
> >>>>>>>>>> helper. If usermode helper fails then it fallback
> >>>>>>>>>> to direct access. + * Usefull for dynamic or model
> >>>>>>>>>> specific firmware data. + **/
> >>>>>>>>>> +int request_firmware_prefer_user(const struct
> >>>>>>>>>> firmware **firmware_p, +
> >>>>>>>>>> const char *name, struct device *device) +{
> >>>>>>>>>> +       int ret;
> >>>>>>>>>> +       __module_get(THIS_MODULE);
> >>>>>>>>>> +       ret = _request_firmware(firmware_p, name,
> >>>>>>>>>> device, +
> >>>>>>>>>> FW_OPT_UEVENT
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> | FW_OPT_PREFER_USER); +
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> module_put(THIS_MODULE); +       return ret;
> >>>>>>>>>> +}
> >>>>>>>>>> +EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(request_firmware_prefer_user);
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> I'd like to introduce request_firmware_user() which
> >>>>>>>>> only requests firmware from user space, and this
> >>>>>>>>> way is simpler and more flexible since we have
> >>>>>>>>> request_firmware_direct() already.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Why would a driver care about what program provides
> >>>>>>>> the firmware?  It shouldn't at all, and we want to
> >>>>>>>> get rid of the userspace firmware loader, not
> >>>>>>>> encourage drivers to use it "exclusively" at all.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Do not remove it! Without userspace firmware loader it
> >>>>>>> is impossible to load dynamic firmware files.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> why is this dynamic in the first place. It does not
> >>>>>> sound like dynamic data to me at all. This is like the
> >>>>>> WiFi MAC address(es) or Bluetooth BD_ADDR. They are
> >>>>>> all static information. The only difference is that
> >>>>>> they are on the host accessibly filesystem or storage
> >>>>>> and not on the device itself.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> To be honest, for Bluetooth we solved this now. If the
> >>>>>> device is missing key information like the calibration
> >>>>>> data or BD_ADDR, then it comes up unconfigured. A
> >>>>>> userspace process can then go and load the right data
> >>>>>> into it and then the device becomes available as
> >>>>>> Bluetooth device.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Trying to use request_firmware to load some random data
> >>>>>> and insist on going through userspace helper for that
> >>>>>> sounds crazy to me. Especially since we are trying
> >>>>>> hard to get away from the userspace loader. Forcing to
> >>>>>> keep it for new stuff sounds backwards to me.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> With the special Nokia partition in mind, why hasn't
> >>>>>> this been turned into a mountable filesystem or into a
> >>>>>> driver/subsystem that can access the data direct from
> >>>>>> the kernel. I advocated for this some time ago. Maybe
> >>>>>> there should be a special subsystem for access to
> >>>>>> these factory persistent information that drivers then
> >>>>>> just can access. I seem to remember that some systems
> >>>>>> provide these via ACPI. Why does the ARM platform has
> >>>>>> to be special here?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> And the problem of getting Ethernet and WiFi MAC
> >>>>>> address and Bluetooth BD_ADDR comes up many many
> >>>>>> times. Why not have something generic here. And don't
> >>>>>> tell me request_firmware is that generic solution ;)
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Marcel
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Hi Marcel. I think you did not understand this problem.
> >>>>> This discussion is not about mac address. Please read
> >>>>> email thread again and if there are some unclear pars,
> >>>>> then ask. Thanks!
> >>>> 
> >>>> I think that I pretty clearly understand the problem.
> >>>> Calibration data, MAC address, what is the difference?
> >>>> For me this is all the same. It is data that is specific
> >>>> to a device or type of devices and it is stored
> >>>> somewhere else. In most cases in some immutable
> >>>> memory/flash area.
> >>> 
> >>> Those calibration data (in form of binary NVS firmware
> >>> file) needs to be sent to wl1251 chip. Mac address is not
> >>> needed at this step (and kernel generate some random if
> >>> is not provided).
> >>> 
> >>> (Just to note wl1271 driver loads both MAC address and NVS
> >>> data via one firmware file which is prepared by userspace,
> >>> but this discussion is about wl1251...)
> >>> 
> >>>> What you want is access to this data since the kernel
> >>>> driver needs it. Do I get this so far ;)
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, we need to provide NVS data to kernel when kernel ask
> >>> for them.
> >>> 
> >>>> So my take is that request_firmware is not the right way
> >>>> to get this data. Or more precisely make sure that this
> >>>> data is available to kernel drivers. And what I am seeing
> >>>> here is that instead of actually solving the bigger
> >>>> problem, we just hack around it with request_firmware.
> >>>> Now surprisingly the request_firmware loads files
> >>>> directly from the kernel and all the hacks do not work
> >>>> anymore.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> 
> >>>> Marcel
> >>> 
> >>> Just read emails again...
> >>> 
> >>> Our problem is:
> >>> 
> >>> linux-firmware.git tree provides two binary firmware
> >>> files:
> >>> 
> >>> ti-connectivity/wl1251-fw.bin
> >>> ti-connectivity/wl1251-nvs.bin
> >>> 
> >>> First is firmware file, second NVS file with generic
> >>> calibration data. Kernel driver wl1251 now loads both
> >>> firmware files via request_firmware. Generic calibration
> >>> data are enough for wl1251 chip (it should work). But
> >>> devices have own calibration data stored somewhere else.
> >>> 
> >>> On Nokia N900 NVS data are generated on-the-fly from some
> >>> bytes from CAL (/dev/mtd1), from state of cellular network
> >>> and from some other regulation settings.
> >>> 
> >>> So I think that files stored in linux-firmware.git tree
> >>> (which are also installed into /lib/firmware/) should be
> >>> loaded with request_firmware function. Or not? Do you
> >>> think something else? What other developers think?
> >>> 
> >>> I'm against kernel driver for CAL (/dev/mtd1) for more
> >>> reasons:
> >>> 
> >>> 1) we have userspace open source code, but licensed under
> >>> GPLv3. And until kernel change license, we cannot include
> >>> it.
> >>> 
> >>> 2) NVS data are (probably) not in one place, plus they
> >>> depends on something other.
> >>> 
> >>> 3) If manufacture XYZ create new device with its own
> >>> storage format of calibration data this means that
> >>> correct solution for XYZ is also to implement new kernel
> >>> fs driver for its own format. Do you really want to have
> >>> in kernel all those drivers for all different
> >>> (proprietary) storage formats?
> >>> 
> >>> 4) It does not help us with existence of generic file
> >>> /lib/firmware/ti-connectivity/wl1251-nvs.bin which comes
> >>> from linux-firmware.git tree.
> >> 
> >> a) change driver to prefer a new "wl1251-nvs-n900.bin"
> >> file,
> > 
> > Why to "*-n900.bin" ? wl1251 driver is used on other devices
> > too.
> > 
> >> but fall back to "wl1251-nvs.bin" if the first one isn't
> >> present
> >> 
> >> b) have a "wl1251-cal-nvs-update" service that, if
> >> wl1521-nvs-n900.bin is *not* present mounts the CAL MTD,
> >> reads the data, writes it out into wl1521-nvs-n900.bin, and
> >> the rmmod/modprobes the driver
> > 
> > Quote:
> >> On Nokia N900 NVS data are generated on-the-fly from some
> >> bytes from CAL (/dev/mtd1), from state of cellular network
> >> and from some other regulation settings.
> > 
> > This basically means to rewrite it every boot or everytime
> > when country was changed (for regulation settings). And Ii
> > really do not want to do that.
> > 
> > And rmmod is not working on statically linked drivers into
> > zImage. So this is not solution.
> 
> actually module removal is still considered a race condition.
> If re-loading a module is part of your solution, then you are
> already heading into the wrong direction.
> 

No, I'm not doing it and I want to have driver still loaded.

> WiFi subsystem have a solution for handling regulatory
> enforcement. I don't know why would you try to invent that
> same via NVS files.
> 

Both firmware and NVS files are sent to chip as blob data. And 
they are sent every time when userspace ask to bring interface 
up.

So looks like modprobing driver works without data. Kernel ask 
for them once userspace want to use wifi network.

> >> and done?  Stuff that's not N900 just wouldn't ship the
> >> update service and would proceed like none of this
> >> happened.
> >> 
> >> Dan
> > 
> > Again, what is wrong with userspace firmware helper? I think
> > that it fix this problem in a clean way without any hacks
> > (like CAL in kernel or creating new FS specially for
> > parsing NVS and so on) in kernel. And in userspace we can
> > implement program which generate NVS firmware data
> > on-the-fly and send them to kernel in compatible format of
> > ti-connectivity/wl1251-nvs.bin
> 
> How do you run a userspace firmware helper if the root
> filesystem has not yet been mounted? How do you run userspace
> helper during resume?
> 

I cannot do that.

> Honestly for drivers linked statically into the kernel, the
> best approach is that they stay unconfigured until userspace
> is available and can run a tool to provide the correct data.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marcel

So ifconfig wlan0 should fail? In our case for wl1251 I think we 
should fallback to generic NVS data if are available (and maybe 
later when request will be there again, userspace can provide 
data).

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@...il.com

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