Date:	Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:06:38 -0500
From:	Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>
To:	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
CC:	Hubert Sokolowski <h.sokolowski@....edu.pl>,
	Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com>,
	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Vlad Yasevich <vyasevic@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next RESEND] net: Do not call ndo_dflt_fdb_dump if
 ndo_fdb_dump is defined.

On 12/15/14 19:45, John Fastabend wrote:
> On 12/15/2014 06:29 AM, Jamal Hadi Salim wrote:

>
> hmm good question. When I implemented this on the host nics with SR-IOV,
> VMDQ, etc. The multi/unicast addresses were propagated into the FDB by
> the driver.

So if i understand correctly, this is a NIC with an FDB. And there is no
concept of a bridge to which it is attached. To the point of
classical uni/multicast addresses on a netdev abstraction; these
are typically stored in *much simpler tables* (used to be IO
registers back in the day)
Do these NICs not have such a concept?
An fdb entry has an egress port column; I have seen cases where the
port is labeled as "Cpu port" which would mean it belongs to the host;
but in this case it just seems there is no such concept and as Or
brought up in another email - what does "VLANid" mean in such a case?
If we go with a CPU port concept,
We could then use the concept of a vlan filter on a port basis
but then what happens when you dont have an fdb (majority of cases)?

> My logic was if some netdev ethx has a set of MAC addresses
> above it well then any virtual function or virtual device also behind
> the hardware shouldn't be sending those addresses out the egress switch
> facing port. Otherwise the switch will see packets it knows are behind
> that port and drop them. Or flood them if it hasn't learned the address
> yet. Either way they will never get to the right netdev.
>
> Admittedly I wasn't thinking about switches with many ports at the time.
>

I often struggle with trying to "box" SRIOV into some concept of a
switch abstraction and sometimes i am puzzled.
Would exposing the SRIOV underlay as a switch not have solved this
problem? Then the virtual ports essentially are bridge ports.
Maybe what we need is a concept of a "edge relay" extended netdev?
These things would have an fdb as well down and uplink relay ports that
can be attached to them.


>> Some of these drivers may be just doing the LinuxWay(aka cutnpaste what
>> the other driver did).
>
> My original thinking here was... if it didn't implement fdb_add, fdb_del
> and fdb_dump then if you wanted to think of it as having forwarding
> database that was fine but it was really just a two port mac relay. In
> which case just dump all the mac addresses it knows about. In this case
> if it was something more fancy it could do its own dump like vxlan or
> macvlan.
>

The challenge here is lack of separation between a NICs uni/multicast
ports which it owns - which is a traditional operation regardless of
what capabilities the NIC has; vs an fdb which has may have many
other capabilities. Probably all NICs capable of many MACs implement
fdbs?

> For a host nic ucast/multicast and fdb are the same, I think? The
> code we had was just short-hand to allow the common case a host nic
> to work. Notice vxlan and bridge drivers didn't dump there addr lists
> from fdb_dump until your patch.
>
> Perhaps my implementation of macvlan fdb_{add|del|dump} is buggy. And
> I shouldn't overload the addr lists.
>

Not just those - I am wondering about the general utility of what
Hubert was trying to do if all the driver does is call the default
dumper based on some flags presence and the default dumper
does a dump of uni/multicast host entries. Those are not really fdb
entries in the traditional sense.
Is there no way to get the unicast/multicast mac addresses for such
a driver?
I think that would help bring clarity to my confusion.


>
> I'm interested to see what Vlad says as well. But the current situation
> is previously some drivers dumped their addr lists others didn't.
> Specifically, the more switch like devices (bridge, vxlan) didn't. Now
> every device will dump the addr lists. I'm not entirely convinced that
> is correct.
>

I am glad this happened ;-> Otherwise we wouldnt be having this
discussion. When Vlad was asking me I was in a rush to get the patch
out and didnt question because i thought this was something some crazy
virtualization people needed.
If Vlad's use case goes away, then Hubert's little restoration is fine.


> It works OK for host nics (NICS that can't forward between ports) and
> seems at best confusing for real switch asics.

So if these NICs have fdb entries and i programmed it (meaning setting
which port a given MAC should be sent to), would it not work?

> On a related question do
> you expect the switch asic to trap any packets with MAC addresses in
> the multi/unicast address lists and send them to the correct netdev? Or
> will the switch forward them using normal FDB tables?
>

I think there would be a separate table for that. Roopa, can you check
with the ASICs you guys work on? The point i was trying to make above
is today there is a uni/multicast list or table of sorts that all NICs
expose.
There's always the hack of a "cpu port". I have also seen the "cpu port"
being conceptualized in L3 tables to imply "next hop is cpu" where you
have an IP address owned by the host; so maybe we need a concept of a
cpu port or again the revival of TheThing class device.

cheers,
jamal

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