Date:	Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:10:07 -0700
From:	Jay Vosburgh <jay.vosburgh@...onical.com>
To:	Nikolay Aleksandrov <nikolay@...hat.com>
cc:	Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
	Mahesh Bandewar <maheshb@...gle.com>,
	Andy Gospodarek <andy@...yhouse.net>,
	Veaceslav Falico <vfalico@...il.com>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Maciej Zenczykowski <maze@...gle.com>,
	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/4] bonding work-queues, try_rtnl() & notifications

Nikolay Aleksandrov <nikolay@...hat.com> wrote:

>On 12/03/15 15:21, Nikolay Aleksandrov wrote:
>> On 12/03/15 15:11, Eric Dumazet wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2015-03-12 at 13:09 +0100, Nikolay Aleksandrov wrote:
>>>> On 12/03/15 06:54, Mahesh Bandewar wrote:
>>>>> This patch series tries to address the issue discovered in various work-
>>>>> queues and the way these handlers deal with the RTNL. Especially for 
>>>>> notification handling. If RTNL can not be acquired, these handlers ignore
>>>>> sending notifications and just re-arm the timer. This could be very 
>>>>> problematic if the re-arm timer has larger value (e.g. in minutes).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mahesh Bandewar (4):
>>>>>   bonding: Handle notifications during work-queue processing gracefully
>>>>>   bonding: Do not ignore notifications for miimon-work-queue
>>>>>   bonding: Do not ignore notifications for AD-work-queue
>>>>>   bonding: Do not ignore notifications for ARP-work-queue
>>>>>
>>>>>  drivers/net/bonding/bond_3ad.c  | 22 ++++++++++++---
>>>>>  drivers/net/bonding/bond_main.c | 62 ++++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
>>>>>  include/net/bonding.h           | 22 +++++++++++++++
>>>>>  3 files changed, 77 insertions(+), 29 deletions(-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello Mahesh,
>>>> The current behaviour was chosen as a best-effort type because such change
>>>> could skew the monitoring/AD timers because you re-schedule every time you
>>>> cannot acquire rtnl and move their timers with 1 tick ahead which could lead 
>>>> to false link drops, state machines running late and so on.
>>>> Currently the monitoring/AD functions have priority over the notifications as in
>>>> we might miss a notification but we try not to miss a monitoring/AD event, thus I'd
>>>> suggest to solve this in a different manner. If you'd like to have the best of both
>>>> worlds i.e. not miss a monitoring event and also not miss any notifications you should
>>>> use a different strategy. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I disagree here.
>>>
>>> All rtnl_trylock() call sites must be very careful about what they are
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> bonding is not, and we should fix this.
>>>
>>> Mahesh fix seems very reasonable. If you need something else, please
>>> provide your own patch.
>>>
>>> When code is the following :
>>>
>>>         if (!rtnl_trylock())
>>>                  return;
>>>         call_netdevice_notifiers(NETDEV_NOTIFY_PEERS, bond->dev);
>>>         rtnl_unlock();
>>>
>>> Then, one must understand what happens if at this point rtnl_trylock()
>>> never succeeds.
>>>
>>> Like, what happens if you remove the whole thing.
>>>
>>> If the code is not needed, remove it, instead of having flaky behavior.
>>>
>> 
>> I agree that it should be fixed and that would work, my only concern is that in
>> rare cases this might lead to skewing of the monitoring/AD timers because with
>> every failed attempt at obtaining rtnl it moves the associated timer with 1 tick
>> ahead, because when it successfully obtains it then the timer gets re-armed with the
>> full timeout. What I suggested has already been done actually by the slave array update
>> which uses a work item of its own because of the rtnl update, so we could just pull all
>> of the call sites that request rtnl in a single work item which checks some bits and
>> calls the appropriate notifications or re-schedules itself if necessary, that would keep
>> all the monitoring/AD timers closer to being correct.
>> I can see that this would be a very rare case so I don't have a strong feeling about
>> my argument, I just wanted to make sure it gets considered. If you and the others decide
>> it's not worth it, then so be it. Also pulling all rtnl call sites in a single place
>> looks cleaner to me instead of having the same logic in each work item's function.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>  Nik
>> 
>
>Well, of course that has its own problems of missed updates. Hrm.. Okay
>let's leave it this way. Never mind my argument about the timer
>skewing, consider only fixing the RCU problem.

	I don't see an issue with how this changes the notification
processing.  I was initially concerned with the 802.3ad state machine,
but the actual state machine processing is skipped for the "accelerated"
invocation that sends the notifier.  I don't see that the state machine
itself will become skewed due to delays unless rtnl_trylock fails
continuously for an extended period (upwards of 2 seconds, I think, long
enough to risk the 3 second LACPDU timeout if LACP rate is set to fast).

	When the "rtnl_trylock" business was added, the primary concern
was deadlock avoidance, not timely delivery of the notifications.  The
deadlock still looks to be a concern; some paths come in with RTNL held
and acquire the bond->mode_lock, the various monitoring functions are
doing the opposite order.

	I recall another suggestion a while back to modify the bonding
periodic functions to acquire RTNL for every pass (followed by the
mode_lock) to eliminate the trylock, but I don't see that as preferrable
due to the amount of spurious RTNL acquisitions.

	That said, it would be better to have a more deterministic
system (e.g., moving the "needs RTNL" logic into its own work item
without conditional locking), but as an incremental change to what's
there now, I don't see a problem with this patch set.

	-J

---
	-Jay Vosburgh, jay.vosburgh@...onical.com
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