Message-ID: <553E2C28.9030501@mojatatu.com>
Date:	Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:31:36 -0400
From:	Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>
To:	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...mgrid.com>,
	Cong Wang <cwang@...pensource.com>
CC:	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
	John Fastabend <john.r.fastabend@...el.com>,
	netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC 2/3] tc: deprecate TC_ACT_QUEUED

On 04/23/15 20:59, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On 4/23/15 3:51 PM, Jamal Hadi Salim wrote:
>>
>> So you are planning to add queues? If you are that is a different
>> discussion (and the use case needs some clarity).
>
> nope. I wasn't planning to do that.
>

Then i would say, lets just keep the naming convention. Maybe
better documentation is needed.

>  > For packets being forwarded we already had egress qdiscs which had
>  > queues so it didnt seem to make sense to enqueue on ingress for such
>  > use cases.
>  > There was a use case later where multiple ingress ports had to be
>  > shared
>  > and ifb was born - which is pseudo temporary enqueueing on ingress.
>
> agree. imo ifb approach is more flexible, since it has full hierarchy
> of qdiscs. As you're saying above and from the old ifb logs I thought
> that ifb is _temporary_ and long term plan is to use ingress_queue,
> but looks like this is not the case.

ifb represented a real use case which questioned the lack
of ingress queue. But do note, that problem was solved. And in
engineering we just move on unless a compelling reason makes us
rethink.
IMO, the original use case for ifb no longer requires it but the
internets and the googles havent caught up with it yet. Refer to
my netdev01 preso/paper where i talk about "sharing".
However, ifb addressed another issue. Instead of having per port/netdev
policies we can now have per-aggregate-port-group policies. While this
comes at a small cost of redirecting packets, that penalty is only paid
for by people interested in defining such policies.
This in itself is useful.

>Also not too long ago we decided
> that we don't want another ingress qdisc. Therefore I think it makes
> sense to simplify the code and boost performance.
> I'm not proposing to change tooling, of course.
>  From iproute2 point of view we'll still have ingress qdisc.
> Right now we're pointlessly allocating memory for it and for
> ingress_queue, whereas we only need to call cls/act.
> I'm proposing to kill them and used tcf_proto in net_device instead.
> Right now to reach cls in critical path on ingress we do:
> rxq = skb->dev->ingress_queue
> sch = rxq->qdisc
> sch->enqueue
> sch->filter_list
> with a bunch of 'if' conditions and useless memory accesses in-between.
> If we add 'ingress_filter_list' directly to net_device,
> it will be just:
> skb->dev->ingress_filter_list
> which is huge performance boost. Code size will shrink as well.
> iproute2 and all existing tools will work as-is. Looks as win-win to me.
>

I hear you; any extra cycle we can remove from the equation is useful.
But do note: in this case, it comes down to the thin line between
usability and  performance. Do take a closer look at the tooling
interfaces from user space on ingress qdisc. The serialization,
the ops already provided for manipulating filters etc. Those are
for free if you use the qdisc abstraction.
If you can still keep that and get rid of the opcodes you mention
above then it is win-win. My feeling is it is a lot more challenging.

>>>> The fact that qdiscs dealt with these codes directly
>>>> allows for specialized handling. Moving them to a generic function
>>>> seems to defeat that purpose. So I am siding with Cong on this.
>>>
>>> that's not what patch 1 is doing. It is still doing specialized
>>> handling... but in light of what you said above, it looks like much
>>> bigger cleanup is needed. We'll continue arguing when I refactor
>>> this set and resubmit when net-next reopens.
>>
>> Sorry - i was refereing to the patch where you agregated things after
>> the qdisc invokes a classifier.
>
> hmm. There I also didn't convert all qdiscs into single helper.
> Only those that have exactly the same logic after tc_classify.
> All other qdiscs have custom handling.
> No worries, it's hard to review things while traveling. Been there :)
>

I am sorry again - will look when i get out of travel mode.

cheers,
jamal
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