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Date:	Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:50:08 -0700
From:	Scott Feldman <>
To:	John Fastabend <>
Cc:	Jiri Pirko <>, Netdev <>,
	"David S. Miller" <>,
	Ido Schimmel <>,,
	Thomas Graf <>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <>,
	David Laight <>
Subject: Re: [patch net-next v3 06/14] rocker: introduce worlds infrastructure

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:25 PM, John Fastabend <> wrote:
> [...]
>>>> Using void * in these ops is unacceptable, I can't agree to this patch.
>>>> There is a much cleaner way to architect this.  If you look at the ops
>>>> defined, they're mostly duplicates of the already defined
>>>> switchdev_ops.  It would be much cleaner to:
>>>> 0) set port mode on qemu/rocker (the device)
>>>> 1) get the port mode on port probe
>>>> 2) based on port mode, set the switchdev_ops to point to the port mode
>>>> world switchdev_ops
>>>> 3) sub-class rocker_port, like I mentioned in before, to store
>>>> world-specific stuff in rocker_port
>>>> I don't buy the argument that we need to change port mode dynamically
>>>> from the driver.  Set it at the device and be done.
>>> Maybe as a reference this strikes me as similar to how we do multiple
>>> device support in a single driver like ixgbe or fm10k (the two I'm most
>>> familiar with). At probe time we read the device id and then stub in
>>> the specific callbacks for that device.
>> Exactly
>>> Sorry I'm still hung up on the multiple worlds thing, is it really
>>> trying to model different devices under a single driver? In which case
>>> maybe rather than port mode expose it as its own device id. Just a
>>> thought.
>> Yes, different devices under single driver.  New device ID or
>> sub-device ID will not work in this case as we're trying to slice it
>> at the port level, not the device level.
> OK uncovered my next level of suspicion/confusion.
> Do you actually have or seen hardware that has completely different
> programming interface per port? And completely different pipelines?

I haven't.

> This seems really strange to me and perhaps just an artifact of
> the qemu implementation? Typically or at least what I expect is you
> have a switch pipeline with a set of data structures, tcams, hash
> tables, etc all connected together in some (possibly configurable)
> topology. Ports feed packets into this pipeline and packets egress
> out ports. In my logical view of a "switch" device the pipeline
> is a shared resource you can partition it so that ports are isolated
> in some sense but you can't use fundamentally different underlying
> resources per ports. Its not a per port attribute/mode like this
> series sort of hints at.

Yes, this is an artifact of the qemu implementation.  The idea was
ports could run in one mode (world) or another.  The device would make
sure port traffic stays within the world.  Each world would have its
own pipeline and resources.  So one switch device could have ports in
different worlds.

> Also I wonder how this works when a pkt ingresses a port in mode A and
> egresses a port in mode B? What fib/fdb tables does it cross when this
> happens? It seems easier to just have two switch devices not a
> hybrid. If this per port implementation maps to some hardware that
> would be really interesting though.

In retrospect, I regret adding the port mode feature to rocker.  I
like the world idea, so we can have a device with different
pipeline/resources, but we should have locked all ports on a switch to
one mode, or even as you hinted at earlier, use a unique sub-device ID
for a switch with all ports in a particular mode.  If you want to
ports with different worlds, just instantiate a switch in each world.
Instantiating new devices is easy.

But, now Jiri has locked on to the dynamic port mode idea with pit
bull zeal, to the point of being able to switch a port mode at any
time from one mode to another from the host.  I just don't see that as
a real-world use-case.  Life is too short and we need to be focusing
on switchdev features, not refactoring or adding cool but useless

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