Message-ID: <20151207191418-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com>
Date:	Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:39:05 +0200
From:	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:	Alexander Duyck <alexander.duyck@...il.com>
Cc:	"Lan, Tianyu" <tianyu.lan@...el.com>,
	"Dong, Eddie" <eddie.dong@...el.com>,
	"a.motakis@...tualopensystems.com" <a.motakis@...tualopensystems.com>,
	Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>,
	"b.reynal@...tualopensystems.com" <b.reynal@...tualopensystems.com>,
	Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@...gle.com>,
	"Wyborny, Carolyn" <carolyn.wyborny@...el.com>,
	"Skidmore, Donald C" <donald.c.skidmore@...el.com>,
	"Jani, Nrupal" <nrupal.jani@...el.com>,
	Alexander Graf <agraf@...e.de>,
	"kvm@...r.kernel.org" <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@...hat.com>,
	"qemu-devel@...gnu.org" <qemu-devel@...gnu.org>,
	"Tantilov, Emil S" <emil.s.tantilov@...el.com>,
	Or Gerlitz <gerlitz.or@...il.com>,
	"Rustad, Mark D" <mark.d.rustad@...el.com>,
	Eric Auger <eric.auger@...aro.org>,
	intel-wired-lan <intel-wired-lan@...ts.osuosl.org>,
	"Kirsher, Jeffrey T" <jeffrey.t.kirsher@...el.com>,
	"Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@...el.com>,
	"Ronciak, John" <john.ronciak@...el.com>,
	"linux-api@...r.kernel.org" <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"Williams, Mitch A" <mitch.a.williams@...el.com>,
	Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	"Nelson, Shannon" <shannon.nelson@...el.com>,
	Wei Yang <weiyang@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"zajec5@...il.com" <zajec5@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH V2 0/3] IXGBE/VFIO: Add live migration support for
 SRIOV NIC

On Mon, Dec 07, 2015 at 09:12:08AM -0800, Alexander Duyck wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Lan, Tianyu <tianyu.lan@...el.com> wrote:
> > On 12/5/2015 1:07 AM, Alexander Duyck wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We still need to support Windows guest for migration and this is why our
> >>> patches keep all changes in the driver since it's impossible to change
> >>> Windows kernel.
> >>
> >>
> >> That is a poor argument.  I highly doubt Microsoft is interested in
> >> having to modify all of the drivers that will support direct assignment
> >> in order to support migration.  They would likely request something
> >> similar to what I have in that they will want a way to do DMA tracking
> >> with minimal modification required to the drivers.
> >
> >
> > This totally depends on the NIC or other devices' vendors and they
> > should make decision to support migration or not. If yes, they would
> > modify driver.
> 
> Having to modify every driver that wants to support live migration is
> a bit much.  In addition I don't see this being limited only to NIC
> devices.  You can direct assign a number of different devices, your
> solution cannot be specific to NICs.
> 
> > If just target to call suspend/resume during migration, the feature will
> > be meaningless. Most cases don't want to affect user during migration
> > a lot and so the service down time is vital. Our target is to apply
> > SRIOV NIC passthough to cloud service and NFV(network functions
> > virtualization) projects which are sensitive to network performance
> > and stability. From my opinion, We should give a change for device
> > driver to implement itself migration job. Call suspend and resume
> > callback in the driver if it doesn't care the performance during migration.
> 
> The suspend/resume callback should be efficient in terms of time.
> After all we don't want the system to stall for a long period of time
> when it should be either running or asleep.  Having it burn cycles in
> a power state limbo doesn't do anyone any good.  If nothing else maybe
> it will help to push the vendors to speed up those functions which
> then benefit migration and the system sleep states.
> 
> Also you keep assuming you can keep the device running while you do
> the migration and you can't.  You are going to corrupt the memory if
> you do, and you have yet to provide any means to explain how you are
> going to solve that.
> 
> 
> >
> >>
> >>> Following is my idea to do DMA tracking.
> >>>
> >>> Inject event to VF driver after memory iterate stage
> >>> and before stop VCPU and then VF driver marks dirty all
> >>> using DMA memory. The new allocated pages also need to
> >>> be marked dirty before stopping VCPU. All dirty memory
> >>> in this time slot will be migrated until stop-and-copy
> >>> stage. We also need to make sure to disable VF via clearing the
> >>> bus master enable bit for VF before migrating these memory.
> >>
> >>
> >> The ordering of your explanation here doesn't quite work.  What needs to
> >> happen is that you have to disable DMA and then mark the pages as dirty.
> >>   What the disabling of the BME does is signal to the hypervisor that
> >> the device is now stopped.  The ixgbevf_suspend call already supported
> >> by the driver is almost exactly what is needed to take care of something
> >> like this.
> >
> >
> > This is why I hope to reserve a piece of space in the dma page to do dummy
> > write. This can help to mark page dirty while not require to stop DMA and
> > not race with DMA data.
> 
> You can't and it will still race.  What concerns me is that your
> patches and the document you referenced earlier show a considerable
> lack of understanding about how DMA and device drivers work.  There is
> a reason why device drivers have so many memory barriers and the like
> in them.  The fact is when you have CPU and a device both accessing
> memory things have to be done in a very specific order and you cannot
> violate that.
> 
> If you have a contiguous block of memory you expect the device to
> write into you cannot just poke a hole in it.  Such a situation is not
> supported by any hardware that I am aware of.
> 
> As far as writing to dirty the pages it only works so long as you halt
> the DMA and then mark the pages dirty.  It has to be in that order.
> Any other order will result in data corruption and I am sure the NFV
> customers definitely don't want that.
> 
> > If can't do that, we have to stop DMA in a short time to mark all dma
> > pages dirty and then reenable it. I am not sure how much we can get by
> > this way to track all DMA memory with device running during migration. I
> > need to do some tests and compare results with stop DMA diretly at last
> > stage during migration.
> 
> We have to halt the DMA before we can complete the migration.  So
> please feel free to test this.
> 
> In addition I still feel you would be better off taking this in
> smaller steps.  I still say your first step would be to come up with a
> generic solution for the dirty page tracking like the dma_mark_clean()
> approach I had mentioned earlier.  If I get time I might try to take
> care of it myself later this week since you don't seem to agree with
> that approach.

Or even try to look at the dirty bit in the VT-D PTEs
on the host. See the mail I have just sent.
Might be slower, or might be faster, but is completely
transparent.


> >>
> >> The question is how we would go about triggering it.  I really don't
> >> think the PCI configuration space approach is the right idea.
> >>  I wonder
> >> if we couldn't get away with some sort of ACPI event instead.  We
> >> already require ACPI support in order to shut down the system
> >> gracefully, I wonder if we couldn't get away with something similar in
> >> order to suspend/resume the direct assigned devices gracefully.
> >>
> >
> > I don't think there is such events in the current spec.
> > Otherwise, There are two kinds of suspend/resume callbacks.
> > 1) System suspend/resume called during S2RAM and S2DISK.
> > 2) Runtime suspend/resume called by pm core when device is idle.
> > If you want to do what you mentioned, you have to change PM core and
> > ACPI spec.
> 
> The thought I had was to somehow try to move the direct assigned
> devices into their own power domain and then simulate a AC power event
> where that domain is switched off.  However I don't know if there are
> ACPI events to support that since the power domain code currently only
> appears to be in use for runtime power management.
> 
> That had also given me the thought to look at something like runtime
> power management for the VFs.  We would need to do a runtime
> suspend/resume.  The only problem is I don't know if there is any way
> to get the VFs to do a quick wakeup.  It might be worthwhile looking
> at trying to check with the ACPI experts out there to see if there is
> anything we can do as bypassing having to use the configuration space
> mechanism to signal this would definitely be worth it.

I don't much like this idea because it relies on the
device being exactly the same across source/destination.
After all, this is always true for suspend/resume.
Most users do not have control over this, and you would
often get sightly different versions of firmware,
etc without noticing.

I think we should first see how far along we can get
by doing a full device reset, and only carrying over
high level state such as IP, MAC, ARP cache etc.

> >>> The dma page allocated by VF driver also needs to reserve space
> >>> to do dummy write.
> >>
> >>
> >> No, this will not work.  If for example you have a VF driver allocating
> >> memory for a 9K receive how will that work?  It isn't as if you can poke
> >> a hole in the contiguous memory.
> 
> This is the bit that makes your "poke a hole" solution not portable to
> other drivers.  I don't know if you overlooked it but for many NICs
> jumbo frames means using large memory allocations to receive the data.
> That is the way ixgbevf was up until about a year ago so you cannot
> expect all the drivers that will want migration support to allow a
> space for you to write to.  In addition some storage drivers have to
> map an entire page, that means there is no room for a hole there.
> 
> - Alex

I think we could start with the atomic idea.
cmpxchg(ptr, X, X)
for any value of X will never corrupt any memory.

Then DMA API could gain a flag that says there actually is a hole to
write into, so you can do

ACESS_ONCE(*ptr)=0;

or where there is no concurrent access so you can do

ACESS_ONCE(*ptr)=ACCESS_ONCE(*ptr);

A driver that sets one of these flags will gain a bit of performance.


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MST
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