netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next 0/8] tou: Transports over UDP

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Message-ID: <CALx6S34Vu_xG7jjTSdFXdbkJOfKt=639ji5DX4gOjObi8Nf+7A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:46:11 -0700
From:	Tom Herbert <tom@...bertland.com>
To:	Rick Jones <rick.jones2@....com>
Cc:	Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Kernel Team <kernel-team@...com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/8] tou: Transports over UDP - part I

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Rick Jones <rick.jones2@....com> wrote:
> On 06/24/2016 02:12 PM, Tom Herbert wrote:
>>
>> The client OS side is only part of the story. Middlebox intrusion at
>> L4 is also a major issue we need to address. The "failure" of TFO is a
>> good case study. Both the upgrade issues on clients and the tendency
>> for some middleboxes to drop SYN packets with data have together
>> severely hindered what otherwise should have been straightforward and
>> useful feature to deploy.
>
>
> How would you define "severely?"  Has it actually been more severe than for
> say ECN?  Or it was for say SACK or PAWS?
>
ECN is probably even a bigger disappointment in terms of seeing
deployment :-( From http://ecn.ethz.ch/ecn-pam15.pdf:

"Even though ECN was standardized in 2001, and it is widely
implemented in end-systems, it is barely deployed. This is due to a
history of problems with severely broken middleboxes shortly after
standardization, which led to connectivity failure and guidance to
leave ECN disabled."

SACK and PAWS seemed to have faired a little better I believe.

Tom

> rick jones
>