netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next 0/8] tou: Transports over UDP

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Message-ID: <576DC9C0.4080102@hpe.com>
Date:	Fri, 24 Jun 2016 17:01:04 -0700
From:	Rick Jones <rick.jones2@....com>
To:	Tom Herbert <tom@...bertland.com>
Cc:	Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Kernel Team <kernel-team@...com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/8] tou: Transports over UDP - part I

On 06/24/2016 04:43 PM, Tom Herbert wrote:
> Here's Christoph's slides on TFO in the wild which presents a good
> summary of the middlebox problem. There is one significant difference
> in that ECN needs network support whereas TFO didn't. Given that
> experience, I'm doubtful other new features at L4 could ever be
> productively use (like EDO or maybe TCP-ENO).
>
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-tcpm-13.pdf

Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but my takeaway from those slides 
is Apple were able to come-up with ways to deal with the middleboxes and 
so could indeed productively use TCP FastOpen.

"Overall, very good success-rate"
though tempered by
"But... middleboxes were a big issue in some ISPs..."

Though it doesn't get into how big (some connections, many, most, all?) 
and how many ISPs.

rick jones

Just an anecdote...  Not that I am a "power user" of my iPhone running 
9.3.2 (13F69) nor that I know that anything I am using is the Apple 
Service stated as using TFO (mostly Safari, Mail and Messages) but if it 
is, I cannot say that any troubles under the covers have been noticed by me.