netdev - Re: [RFC V2 PATCH 17/25] net/netpolicy: introduce netpolicy_pick

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Message-ID: <57A3DB2F.1010909@iogearbox.net>
Date:	Fri, 05 Aug 2016 02:17:51 +0200
From:	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
To:	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>
CC:	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>, kan.liang@...el.com,
	davem@...emloft.net, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, mingo@...hat.com, peterz@...radead.org,
	kuznet@....inr.ac.ru, jmorris@...ei.org, yoshfuji@...ux-ipv6.org,
	kaber@...sh.net, akpm@...ux-foundation.org, keescook@...omium.org,
	viro@...iv.linux.org.uk, gorcunov@...nvz.org,
	john.stultz@...aro.org, aduyck@...antis.com, ben@...adent.org.uk,
	decot@...glers.com, fw@...len.de, alexander.duyck@...il.com,
	tom@...bertland.com, rdunlap@...radead.org,
	xiyou.wangcong@...il.com, hannes@...essinduktion.org,
	jesse.brandeburg@...el.com
Subject: Re: [RFC V2 PATCH 17/25] net/netpolicy: introduce netpolicy_pick_queue

On 08/05/2016 12:54 AM, Andi Kleen wrote:
>> +1, I tried to bring this up here [1] in the last spin. I think only very
>> few changes would be needed, f.e. on eBPF side to add a queue setting
>> helper function which is probably straight forward ~10loc patch; and with
>> regards to actually picking it up after clsact egress, we'd need to adapt
>> __netdev_pick_tx() slightly when CONFIG_XPS so it doesn't override it.
>
> You're proposing to rewrite the whole net policy manager as EBPF and run
> it in a crappy JITer? Is that a serious proposal? It just sounds crazy
> to me.
>
> Especially since we already have a perfectly good compiler and
> programming language to write system code in.
>
> EBPF is ok for temporal instrumentation (if you somehow can accept
> its security challenges), but using it to replace core
> kernel functionality (which network policy IMHO is) with some bizarre
> JITed setup and multiple languages doesn't really make any sense.
>
> Especially it doesn't make sense for anything with shared state,
> which is the core part of network policy: it negotiates with multiple
> users.
>
> After all we're writing Linux here and not some research toy.

 From what I read I guess you didn't really bother to look any deeper into
this bizarre "research toy" to double check some of your claims. One of the
things it's often deployed for by the way is defining policy. And the
suggestion here was merely to explore existing infrastructure around things
like tc and whether it already resolves at least a part of your net policy
manager's requirements (like queue selection) or whether existing infrastructure
can be extended with fewer complexity this way (as was mentioned with a new
cls module as one option).